Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Daisey Nowlin Interview

Becky Bailey: Today is June 15th, 1989. One o'clock in the afternoon this is Becky Bailey for the Matewan Development Center Oral History project. I'm interviewing Daisy Nowlin lifelong resident of Matewan,...Vir, West Virginia.

B: You say your grandparents came out of Virginia?

Daisy Nowlin: Clintwood, Virginia. And they walked to Clintwood to Buskirk. It was daddy my granny and my grandaddy.

B: And what year was this?

DN: In 1897. Then they come to Buskirk and stayed in a little shanny (shanty) over there and uh...two months later when he was deputized to arrest these men they ambushed him and he was killed. Left daddy and granny they couldn't read, they couldn't write, they knew nobody and uh...Uncle Billy Hatfield and Aunt Mandy took them in and fed them and kept them from starving to death. And that's the reason he grew up and loved Richard and Landon just like brothers. And uh...he finally made his way...he bartended for Bob Bus-kirk and he helped Clint Pitcock...in the oh...what would it be? Blacksmith shop down on he river bend. For a quarter, a nickel, a dime he swept the Stone Mountain company store. He found a fifty cent piece in the company store and I still got it. And that kept them from starving to death so finally he get him a little job in the old Stone Mountain mine driving a mule. And his mule broke his leg and he quite and he got on the railroad as a brakeman. And then he decided he didn't want that he wanted to go back to Virginia so he walked back to Virginia. He stayed a little while and in the meantime he left my granny here. And then he come back to see about granny and he got on the railroad as a fireman and there he spent his forty-three years as a fireman on the railroad. In the engineer fireman so that was the story of him. And then when the massacre happened the night the evening the massacre that the massacre happened he was in doctor Ed Simpkins dentist office having his teeth worked on. And all the shooting took place he stayed in the dentists office 'til it was over. My grandmother grandfather Compton lived across the track at the mouth of Warm Hollow. They witnessed it all. My grandmother stood and watched it all happen. So when it was over my dad came out of the dentist office and went up the steps right over there at the ice house and went down they were all laying he could tell you where each one was laying who was dead and who was breathing. Turned the corner come back up and he went to Blackberry City where we lived and he did not come back. Granny ask him "are you going back tonight to see my mother?" He said "no mammy I'm not going back to Mate tonight. So it went on as you very well know after the massacre the shooting lasted about a year give or take I don't know how long. And during that time our home in Blackberry City were shoot up. They were on the Kentucky side shooting at the West Virginia side and the West Virginia shooting into Kentucky and our house my granny's house all of them was shot all to pieces. And I have...

B: At Blackberry Creek?

DN: At Blackberry City not Blackberry Creek. In my granny's house was the mantel. That's shot up with bullet holes...in the mantel. Bullet holes in the furniture. Bullet holes in my doors now. I can show you the bullet holes. And you want to hear about my granny where she was during this real hard battle over there. Okay. She was in the little press with a mattress in front of her. And the bullet came through the window hit the mantel split the side of the door press tore off...and she was in there. She stayed in there until the shooting died and then she come out and she went down to a neighbors and got in their cellar. Then she left the cellar when she could and she went up Sulphur Creek to Uncle Kay McCoy's house. So my dad was up the road on the train. on one of his runs. And as he come back down they...what we call they shot the air on the train and stopped the train. And he got off and he ask Uncle Albert Simpkins and Aunt Tuck if they knew where his mother was. My granny was and they told him she was in the head of Sulphur Creek. So he went onto Williamson and bought a little trunk and brought it back up packed up my granny's clothes, got her put her on the train and sent her to Fort Gay. And she stayed 'til the thing was completely over.

B: The first question I'd like to go back and ask you is did your uh...other grandmother ever say who started the shooting? Do she know? Could she see when the massacre happened? Did she ever tell you? (Shakes head no) And you don't want to say? Okay.

DN: There's some things I don't want to say.

B: Okay, alright. How old was your father when his father died?

DN: Sixteen.

B: Could I get a little bit of background information on your mother? Where she was from?

DN: My mother was born at Louisa, Kentucky.

B: Okay. What year was that?

DN: 1893.

B: How did your parents meet? Did they ever tell you?

DN: Daddy watched mamma grow up. He was twelve years older than mamma and he was on the railroad by then and he would write her love letters and flip them off and she would write him one and Lida Morrell would get it and give it to daddy. Because grandma was a very strict grandma on her girls. And they wrote love letters and so that's the way it happened.

B: So your mother was living in Matewan by the time they met?

DN: Um-hum. She came to Matewan when she was five years old. From Louisa.

B: Why did her parents come to Matewan?

DN: To the coal fields for employment.

B: How much did your father make when he was working for the railroad did he ever say?

DN: The biggest wages he made before he retired was eighteen dol-lars and some few cents a day. And when they worked a little over time they worked a little bit more.

B: When did he retire?

DN: 1952.

B: Did your mother ever say what kind of town this was when she was little? Did she ever talk about...

DN: This was a little town this was a fine little town.

B: What kind of stories did she tell you that would go on here?

DN: Well no more than just a little country town. The biggest thing they did was go to church. And uh...they were just...everybody loved everybody. My grandmother mothered everybody in this town and uh...just the church it was the biggest they got to do. They worked hard my grandmother kept boarders. And grandpa got a job as a stable boss for Stone Mountain Coal Company. He tended the mules and drove the wagon, carried supplies. And grandma kept boarders and worked with the doctors here in town. Mamma and her sisters fed the boarders, washed the dishes, cooked, took care of them. The biggest excitement they got was going to church on week-ends that's it. Very little schooling. They didn't get to go to school but very little.

B: Um...were the boarders miners?

DN: Um-hum. They were miners, construction some of them built these buildings, the brick buildings here in town. They kept that crew. Some of them built railroad bridges some of them were miners just whatever.

B: How much did your grandparents for boarding these people?

DN: I have no idea. But I'd say very few pennies. I would say very little.

B: Um...the story around town goes that your uh...mother knew Sid Hatfield, do you know anything about that?

DN: They were sweethearts.

B: Do you know about what time?

DN: Just sweethearts.

B: Sweethearts.

DN: Yeah, just sweethearts. It had to be for just a short time. Because Sid was killed in '21...'21. And uh...mom and daddy were married in 27. So it was...it was just a short what they call sweethearts.

B: Did she ever talk about his personality? He seems to be...

DN: He was a...

B: Colorful character.

DN: He was...he was just uh...I'd call him a lover boy. From what they tell me. He was handsome boy and everybody loved Sid. In the book I've got it...I've got one book that starts with the Hatfield and McCoy and goes all the way through to when Allen Hatfield kill-ed Bay McCoy here in Matewan. And the massacre's in there. And there's some about my grandma in there. Talking to Sid they day of the massacre. You ever read the book? Grandma was an eye witness to it. She stood over there at the house and watched it. And she hollered to Sid to do something and he said "nobody's gonna bother you maw"...And after the shooting kept on and on and grandma and mommy and her sisters and my grandfather they stayed up stairs where the bank is remodeled now. They put them up there behind those brick walls. They would come over there when it would get to bad you know.

B: There's only one source for this statement so we don't...we don't want to influence your statement on this but there...one person said that he thought Sid Hatfield illegitimate. Did you ever hear anything?

DN: He was.

B: Okay. Would you want to comment further on that? Okay. Um...you say your grandmother um...your grandmother talked to him the day of the massacre did she say what kind of mood he was in? She never spoke.

DN: Unt-um. When it started she just run out and hollowed at him. Because they lived just below where it happened. That's all. I don't know whether she had talked to him that day before the massacre or not. Because they lived just across the track you know. So I really don't know.

B: What's your opinion of the story that Sid may have shot Cable Testerman? You don't have one?

DN: Uht-um...

B: Another one of the comments I could tell you where getting these the notes that Lon Savage took for his book. Um...one person said that Jessie Testerman, later Sid's wife had a reputa-tion in town. Uh...did you ever hear anything like that as a child? You didn't? Okay. Um...(Tape cuts off) I guess the more important line of questioning that I need to get into for prosperity sake is some information on you, do you mind talking about you?

DN: No.

B: Okay, uh...when were you born?

DN: 1929.

B: Uh...where were you born?

DN: Stone Mountain Camp, Red Rowe...Red Rowe.

B: Did a doctor help your mother with the birth?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Do you know the doctor?

DN: Doctor O. P. Hodge.

B: And who paid him for...

DN: My daddy.

B: Do you know how much your father paid? Was your father there when you born?

DN: No he was at work? I was born at grandma and grandpa's house. They hadn't started house keeping yet.

B: What time of the year were you born?

DN: June 20th.

B: You say your parents had been married for three years?

DN: Two years.

B: Tow [sic] years. Were you an only child?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Um...were there other babies that died or...

DN: Unt-um...

B: You were just the only one. Did your mother have trouble giving birth to you?

DN: No problem. Daddy said when they called him and told him to come home I was there he said "I looked like a water dog" when he looked at me.

B: Why?

DN: I don't know. I must have not been a very pretty baby.

B: What was your families religion?

DN: Methodists.

B: Methodists. What church did you attend?

DN: Methodists.

B: Methodists. How long did you go to school?

DN: To high school.

B: Um...when did you get married?

DN: 1947.

B: Did you have a war time sweetheart?

DN: Um-hum. Several. Yeah, he was in World War II.

B: This your husband?

DN: Uh-huh.

B: What was his name?

DN: James Nowlin.

B: Where was he from?

DN: Chatteroy.

B: How did you meet him?

DN: He was playing basketball for Chatteroy when I was in high school.

B: Was that for his high school team?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Where did he serve uh...during World War II?

DN: In the Pacific?

B: Do you know where?

DN: Oakanawa(?) He was on Oakanawa(?) when they war ended.

B: Did you hear from your husband when he was your boyfriend at the time during the war? Did you hear from him at all?

DN: No I had...I knew him before and then he went to service and then I didn't see or hear tell of him 'til he come back and we met again.

B: Did he ever talk to you about anything that he saw or...or that went on?

DN: A lot.

B: Does anything stand out in particular that you would remember that he would talk to you about?

DN: About the war.

B: Um-hum.

DN: A lot.

B: Okay. Did you all have any children?

DN: No children.

B: Okay, well...

DN: A whole bunch of them but none legal...(starts laughing) We never did have any children but God gave us friends. That's the only way I can sum it up.

B: So you were everybody's mom?

DN: Yeah. I guess and still am. I've got more grandchild to never have had a child than anybody in this country.

B: Um...well in interviewing the women I'm suppose to ask some personal questions and if you don't want to answer you don't have to but one of the things they're interested in finding out was when people didn't have children if you ever knew a reason why? Was there a medical reason why you didn't ...that you knew of that you didn't have children?

DN: We just never wanted any children from the start. And then by the time we should of had children and I had my mother and my dad his dad we had...we took care of our moms and dads and we had our hands full believe me. We had babies, grown up babies.

B: Getting back to your childhood here in Matewan um...what's the first theater that you remember being here in Matewan?

DN: The one and only Matewan theater right here we are. We're sitting in it right now.

B: Okay. What do you remember about that theater?

DN: Getting to come to the movie on Sunday afternoon with fifty cents in my pocket. Sunday afternoon.

B: What would fifty cents buy you?

DN: Gracious sakes it would buy you the ticket and pop corn and pop and ice cream and candy and everything for fifty cents.

B: Who ran the theater when you were a little girl?

DN: Frank Allara.

B: Did he run it personally I mean did he sell the tickets and run the concession? Do you remember seeing him...

DN: Anolis (?) McCoy sold the tickets Lida Morrell took them up Thelma popped the pop corn, Thelma Jones popped the pop corn.

B: What kind of candy did you buy at the theater? Do you remember?

DN: Black cows and suckers. And mounds that was our favorite.

B: Who would come with you when you went to the theater?

DN: My girlfriends.

B: About how old were you all would you say?

DN: I guess I was about fifteen before I was allowed to go to the movie.

B: What kind of movies did you see? Do you remember any in particular?

DN: Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, uh...oh lets see the Sunday westerns what ever they are.

B: Did they show news reels?

DN: Um-hum. Yeah cartoons and news reels and then the movie.

B: Okay. Did uh...did your parents shop in town I mean did they buy groceries did they buy their clothing? Where did they go?

DN: Matewan, right here in Matewan. It was a rare occasion if you ever went to Williamson.

B: Say where would mother buy the groceries that she bought?

DN: At uh...Anderson's store, Shannon's store.

B: When you all would go in the store did you got around and get the groceries yourself or somebody that worked in the store?

DN: They mostly got them for you then.

B: So Shannon's was somewhere in the vicinity of the Chatterbox and Little Venice?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Do you know was Mr. Shannon a local or...

DN: Um-hum.

B: While we were off tape I ask you if you could remember any of the brand names that your mother especially liked can you think of any off hand?

DN: Well pretty much like uh...it is a lot of it is still the old the baking powders and soda the coffee.

B: Do you remember any brand names that...

DN: The Arm and Hammer Soda and the Clabber Girl Baking Powder. Mom wouldn't use but just one particular kind all the time. There was a run baking powder. And uh...Clabber Girl, the Arm and Hammer Soda.

B: Where did you all buy your meat?

DN: At the same store.

B: You were a small child in the depression do you ever remember people talking about the effects of the depression?

DN: Sure do.

B: What kind of things did they say? Do you remember?

DN: It was rough. They almost starved to death. It was neighbor help neighbor. They shared if one neighbor had a bit to eat they gave it to the other one. And they wore home made clothes. There was no such thing as buying clothes. Feed sacks...feed sacks for sheets, pillow cases. Underclothes, undergarments were all made out of feed sacks. And it was really rough.

B: Okay, um...when did you start school?

DN: When I was six.

B: 1935?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Where did you go to school?

DN: Matewan.

B: How big of a school was it?

DN: The enrollment would be...I had no idea then. Full of two or three hundred. Had to be it was full.

B: two or three hundred students you say?

DN: Um-hum.

B: So the population of Matewan was pretty big at that time?

DN: Was pretty big at that time.

B: Okay.

DN: Matewan was a pretty big little town.

B: Do you remember anything about going to school? Uh...your daily ritual any little songs that you all would sing or...

DN: I sure do. I remember we walked to school everyday we sure didn't ride the bus. There was no such thing as a snow day, a rain day. We walked. And we uh...we sang all kinds of little songs. I can't...it would take me a week to remember what we did sing. But the little old nursery rhymes that you hardly ever hear any more.

B: Do you remember any of the names of the books when you were in school like the text books?

DN: No. We didn't have too many we just had a primer reader. We didn't have too many books when we in school. The teacher just taught us from her books.

B: Okay. So did you have mostly women teachers?

DN: Uh-huh. All women.

B: Do you....

DN: I never had any men teachers until I was in high school.

B: Do you remember any of your teachers?

DN: All of them.

B: Can you name some of them?

DN: Um-hum. My primer teacher was a Mrs. Arant(?).

B: Okay.

DN: My second grade teacher was Okie Plunkett (?) My third grade teacher was Hazel Leckie. Fourth grade we had two, Elizabeth Shannon and she died and then Josephine Hope finished the year out substitute.

DN: Head and one by the hair of the head and beat their heads together and hit them over the head with that big bum thumb. Is it on?

DN: Very strict discipline I mean we were disciplines to the strictest.

B: Now was this by your teachers?

DN: Right...right.

B: How did the parents feel...

DN: Mommy and daddy too.

B: Okay.

DN: If we got it at school we got it at home when we got home. This was real cute when uh...granny Hoskins would call the role of the morning there was a bunch of boys that buddied together. And if they weren't in school that morning if they happened to be all missing at the same time she'd call the role she'd give us an assignment and then she'd go out. And first we'd see her go up the hill behind the school house to Bailey's house. And if James wasn't up there she come back and went to the river where the swirl hole. And she would get them out of the river with no clothes skinny dipping she'd make them put their clothes on she'd bring them back to school.

B: What was the swirl hole.

DN: In the river it was a huge swirl where everybody went swimming.

B: Were girls allowed to go swimming down there?

DN: No.

B: Why was that?

DN: Girls just didn't swim with boys.

B: How about when you were in high school what was the uh...courtship rituals like? When you were a girl in high school?

DN: Well we didn't care too much for our high school buddies. We always, our school mates we always looked for the boys in the other schools. They looked prettier. Out of our class we only had one couple to marry. But we always looked for the others.

B: How did you all see these others from the other schools?

DN: When they come to play basketball and school activities?

B: How far away were the other schools?

DN: About twenty mile, twenty-five.

B: Now I've heard from one other lady that the boys got away with murder here in town, what kind of things did they girls get into for fun in town when you were a girl?

DN: We weren't allowed to come to town.

B: Why was that?

DN: We just weren't out mamma's and daddy's said no. When I grew up you didn't do anything that your mamma and daddy didn't approve of. And you dare not disobey. We had no cars, there was no such thing as an automobile. And the boys come to the house they sit on the porch or on the couch you did your dating in...on the couch or on the porch and swing. You didn't get out in cars...you didn't go anywhere. We just weren't allowed to do it.

B: Okay. Did the parent have particular reasons for not letting the girls come to town? What was going on in town that the girls weren't suppose to see?

DN: There wasn't anything going on in town we just weren't allowed to go.

B: Do you know when uh...Matewan was suppose to be a dry town? Was that during prohibition before you were born?

DN: Before I was born.

B: Were there many bars in town when you were growing up do you remember?

DN: Quite a few.

B: Do you remember the names of any of them?

DN: The Smoke House, the Rainbow Grill, Silver Dollar, the Matewan Cafe. (Tape cuts off)

DN: See Aunt Carey until I was grown. She was there but I never did see her.

B: Was Aunt Carey that you were just talking about was she one of the ladies that had businesses down closer to the river bank?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Okay. What was down on the river bank?

DN: Just a huge house where she lived.

B: Did she have a business?

DN: It was her home.

B: Okay. Uh..was she one of the uh...the town bootleggers? We've been hearing stories from some of the men.

DN: I would say...I would say.

B: Okay. What did it mean for somebody to be a bootlegger here in town? Did you know much of what went on when somebody...

DN: Just sold whiskey.

B: Okay. What kind of whiskey was it that they sold? Was it a homemade whiskey or...

DN: I'd say both kind...I would say both.

B: I did one interview where somebody mentioned that Aunt Carey may have run a house of ill repute was how it was put. Do you know anything about that? You don't?

DN: No.

B: Okay. But you did say off tape that uh...she bought a present for you when you were born, what did she bring you?

DN: A little gold cross. A baby necklace. A little gold cross.

B: Do you know how she would have brought you that necklace?

DN: Because my grandma and my grandpa were just dear friends with every in Matewan.

B: Were there any uh...religious people in this area who say were faith healers or what kind of...was there folk medicine that you knew of that went on or mid-wives?

DN: Well grandma was a mid-wife.

B: How long ago...

DN: My grandpa was a veterinarian and my grandma was a mid-wife. Grandma worked with the doctors here in town and she delivered quite a few babies here in Matewan. The Chambers and Morrells.

B: You say she helped the doctors, did she go with the doctors?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Did anyone ever tell you uh...if um...there were places that she went instead of the doctors were there women that would have preferred your grandmother to have come instead of a doctor?

DN: Uh...I would suppose so.

B: Did she ever tell you about who the doctors were that she helped?

DN: Doctor Hodge, Doctor Sorrell Doctor Goings, Doctor Sanders.

B: Okay. Were these local men?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Did anyone ever say where they got their training?

DN: No.

B: Were some of these doctors were they all coal company doctors or...

DN: No they were local doctors. And of course they doctored the coal miners just the same. They all had offices in Matewan. They would go to the houses. Make house calls. When they were needed they were there.

B: One of the thins that we've heard is that there was a pretty good sized Italian and a pretty good size black communities in this area. Would your grandmother go to those...

DN: Any of them. There weren't prejudice. They loved everybody.

B: When you were young uh...things were illegally segregated do you remember uh...anything abut going places that were segregated when you were young? Were things in Matewan segregated?

DN: The theaters. That's about all we had. The theaters.

B: How about the restaurants in town?

DN: They didn't go...they didn't go.

B: Okay. Now we're talking about what Mrs. Nowlin knows about the black community. You say you want to say something about John and Mary Brown?

DN: I do. They were just the most respected people in this town and they were wonderful to you and one thing that always stands out in my mind abut John and Mary was what my grandmother always told me. My grandmother Compton abut the 1918 flu. John and Mary had the dry cleaning plant and laundry. and when the 1918 flu hit everybody was afraid to go to the other one. But John and Mary were not afraid and they would come to our house to my grandmothers house take their washing their clothes and wash them and bring them back to them and see that they didn't want for anything. The flu was in our home. In my grandmothers home and it killed her first grandchild. But John and Mary stood by them and would come and get their clothes and wash them and bring them back. And they always loved John and Mary Brown that. That's just the way it was with the colored folks in Matewan.

B: Did people talk much about what happened much during the flu epidemic here?

DN: It was just...yeah it was just terrible. When it would hit a home it would...it just...some died some in the family died some were lucky enough to survive. Our family did. And we lost one grandchild.

B: Do you know the names of any of the families that lost people during the flu?

DN: My grandmother they lost their first born...their grandchild. She was a Compton.

B: Was she an infant?

DN: Um-hum. Five years old.

B: Did anyone ever tell you what the symptoms were like? I mean how did they describe people getting the flu? They didn't say?

DN: Just the flu...just...they were sort of out of their head you know they were delirious and I imagine fever. Real high fever. There was no antibiotics there was nothing to doctor with except old home remedies.

B: Do you know any of the remedies that people would do?

DN: Onion poliosis, mustard poliosis, whiskey, ginger, lemon. (tape cuts off) turn that thing on I was gonna tell you...

B: Oh... We're gonna talk now about home remedies.

DN: Well what would you like to know about home remedies?

B: and of the ones that you remember.

DN: Goose greece. Goose greece to grease your chest, bear greece to grease your chest. Mustard and onion poliosis. Castor oil and turpentine.

B: Um...up here did kids ever get the toe itch around here?

DN: In deed we did. Would you like to know what we did for it?

B: Yes please.

DN: Mom and daddy made me go out in the cow pasture and when the cow had a B.M. we had to step in it. Good warm cow manure for toe itch.

B: Did it work?

DN: It worked. It cured.

B: Not only that particular remedy but the other home remedies, what would the doctor say about people using home remedies? Did they ever say anything?

DN: We didn't see a doctor unless we were critical. The only time I had a doctor I had Appendicitis. I had a broken arm and other wise if you stuck a nail in your foot you got turpentine on it. And that's the only time we ever had a doctor. Grandma doctored them. If we got a burn...if we got a real bad burn we was doctored with sodium molasses on it.

B: Okay. Did girls smoke when they were young when you were a girl?

DN: We smoked but they didn't know it. I smoke my granny's pipe all my life.

B: So your grandmother smoked...

DN: My grandmother smoked a pipe all of her life and so did I from the child I was a little tiny baby girl. Smoked granny's pipe.

B: Was that something that she just did or did or did you ever know why?

DN: She smoked her pipe all of her life. My mother did not smoke my daddy did not smoke. My grand daddy chewed. But granny smoke a pipe.

B: Okay. Um...did you all ever put chewing tobacco on bee stings when you were little?

DN: Yes...yes in deed. Chewing tobacco on bee stings.

B: Okay. If you don't mind would you tell me some about your fathers activity on the railroad? The railroad seems like such a important thing in this part of West Virginia?

DN: Well he was on the railroad he started out as a fireman and he worked several year as a fireman and then he was promoted to an engineer and he worked 43 years and he retired in 1952.

B: Did he have to have training to be an engineer?

DN: When you became a fireman and you worked so many years you was promoted. You took a test and if you passed you was promoted to an engineer.

B: What kind of responsibilities did a fireman have on a train?

DN: They had to fire the engine keep the steam up with coal. Hand fired. In later years they finally got stokers on the train. But before the stokers it was hand fired by shovel.

B: Okay. What kind of...was...what kind of work was that for your father? Was it...did it make him a strong man?

DN: It did...

B: What was he physically like?

DN: He was a very strong man. A very healthy man. A big man, a huge man, very healthy.

B: How long did your parents live? How old were they when they died?

DN: My mother was sixty-nine, my daddy was ninety-one.

B: How old were they when they had you? Do you know?

DN: Daddy was forty-eight, my mother was thirty-six.

B: Were there many couples around their age having children at that age in life?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Around here?

DN: Um-hum. It was unusual for people to marry very young a lot of them back in grandmas time is did and then it sort of slacked off and like mamma my mom and daddy they were older when they married?

B: Were there any reasons for that?

DN: No, they just....daddy wanted to uh...he wanted a home he wanted to buy property he wanted to have a home and everything before he ever married.

B: Okay. I think one of the things I should do is go back and ask you just some chronological event questions. Did anyone you know or anyone in your family fight in world War I?

DN: Um-hum.

B: And who were those people?

DN: My uncle.

B: Your uncle?

DN: Um-hum.

B: What did you know about his experiences in World War I? Did he ever talk?

DN: No.

B: Do you know how...about how old he was when he went?

DN: I'd say he must have been about in his early twenties.

B: Did he survive the war?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Did your father or your grandfather that you knew of have any opinions about unionization or what went on during the mining wars? Did they ever tell you anything?

DN: They were for the union all the way. Because they certainly didn't have any wages a living before the union.

B: Did they ever say anything about the uh...the big figures of that store say John L. Lewis? Did you ever hear John L. Lewis mentioned?

DN: Yeah they liked John L. Lewis very much. They felt like he was really for the working man.

B: I know this can be a touchy subject so you can handle it like you like um...what was the family politics that you were aware of? How did your family feel about politics? Were they very politically inclined?

DN: No, they always tried to vote for the man that they thought would do the best job regardless which side he was on. They were registered democrats but they voted for both sides. Which they did not hold they weren't one of these that said well I'd like to vote for him but he's on the wrong side of...now they weren't like that.

B: Uh...did your mother vote?

DN: No my mom didn't vote.

B: Ever?

DN: No.

B: Was there a reason?

DN: No she just my mother wasn't...she was a homebody. My mom was just a homemaker and she just strictly just stayed home and she didn't take part in any of the outside goings. Daddy did the voting.

B: Did your father ever...did you ever overhear your father saying that he like a certain politician or he like certain people?

DN: Um-hum.

B: Do you remember who he would say....

DN: He would always say when it was election time he always knew who he would like to vote for and who he would like to see in office and he would vote. But regardless of which way it went whoever got it the next day he'd say "that's my man" and he was for him a hundred percent.

B: Since you were a depression error child do you ever remember uh...people talking about say Herbert Hoover verses Franklin Roosevelt? What were the opinions that you remember?

DN: Well, all I can remember is how they talked about in Hoover's time you know it was Hoover aprons and they didn't have enough to eat and they were on starvation and then it seems that Franklin Roosevelt pulled them out of it. The work programs and things that he started for them and it began to help. And I can remember the first I could remember was the WPA and programs and the three C camp and things like that where men were given work you know.

B: You mentioned the WPA and the three C camp did you know of men that went off to work for the WPA?

DN: Well a lot of the local men that was the only work they could get.

B: Do you know what kind of work they did or where they did it?

DN: They did road work they kept the road up they built out houses for coal camps and they did any kind of work if you needed something done they would come and do your work for you, help you.

B: They say during the depression that there was trouble with railroad hobo's and things like that.

DN: That's right.

B: Did any hobo's or anything like that come through Matewan?

DN: We used to have Hobo's all the time.

B: And what kind of people were they?

DN: They were just transit just stragglers from everywhere going hunting work, going from one place to another maybe they'd get off the train they'd ask for a meal just something to eat they'd feed them and they'd go on. On their way.

B: Was there ever any violence that was associated with any of those men?

DN: With hobo's no.

B: Okay. Um...back during the twenties and thirties the Klu-Klux-Klan was a strong organization do you know of anything about the klan in this are?

DN: It was here I'm sure. But it was a very hushed, hushed thing. I know we had some neighbors our neighbors some of them were mem-bers of the Klu-Klux-Klan. But it wasn't discussed openly. But if there was people that was in the community that were doing things they shouldn't be doing they were warned that they had better straighten up. And sometimes a bundle of switch-es would be left on their door. On their porch. They would warm them.

B: Now was this when they were doing things they shouldn't have been doing did it always have uh...racial overtones?

DN: No...no had nothing to do with racial stuff.

B: Can you give any examples of the kind of things that people would do that they would get in trouble for?

DN: Well, if a woman was not the kind of mother she should be to her children of if the daddy was drinking and not providing well for his family and things like that.

B: Okay.

DN: No nothing to do with race. We didn't ever have any trouble here.

B: Okay. Um...that brings to mind questions about uh...law and order. There are books that have said that people from Appalachia have their own view as what the law meant, what kind of uh...what kind of attitude was there in town about the law that you remember?

DN: The law was respected. And the law was the law and people had to abide by it. It wasn't like it is now. Uh...the law kept law in order. And sometimes it got a little bit rough right here in our town if there was things that got sort of out of hand and unruly the law took care of them. I mean we really had protection then which we don't have anymore.

B: Okay. Do you remember say um...not say in comparison but do any of the uh...local policeman or sheriffs stand out in your mind as people that kept things going smoothly here in town?

DN: Um-hum. One of our...I think one of our main ones and one of our best ones was Ernest Hatfield when he was chief of police and back during that time.

B: When was he chief of police? Do you remember?

DN: In the '30's maybe '40's. For several years, '40's and on.

B: What kind of attitude did he have about running the town?

DN: Ernest was just a man that demanded law and order. He kept a tight rein on the town. And if people disobeyed they paid the price.

B: We've heard the expression uh...being down here that he was the last chief of police that to of been able to whip everybody in town. Did you ever hear that expression?

DN: Right...right. Ernest was a fine man he has a heart of gold. But he was a stern man. And what he said went.

B: Did your father ever tell you anything about what being in the railroad business was like? Did he ever talk about his work to you?

DN: Um-hum.

B: What kind of things did he tell you?

DN: In the way of uh...did he like his work, is that what you mean?

B: Um-hum.

DN: Yes he loved the railroad was really....it was just an outstanding job if you were lucky enough to be a railroad man. And he was very proud a very proud man. He was proud railroad man. He was a railroad man a hundred percent.

B: Did he ever tell you about his employers? What is was like to work?

DN: The employers were good they were good to work for.

DN: Okay, he was on time freight going to Bluefield on Easter Sunday morning.

B: And what happened?

DN: Okay. A yard engine was given the wrong signal and they threw the switch and threw it in on daddies train and they hit in the yard and were killed. Under the Mercer Street bridge.

B: Was your father injured in the accident?

DN: Um-hum.

DN: A broken leg.

B: Was he off from work for very long?

DN: Um-hum. Several months.

B: Uh...what kind of financial help did he receive from his employer during that time.

DN: A little sick benefit.

B: Okay. What uh...kind of a attitudes did your parents have about banks being a relatively a newly married couple at the start of the great depression, did they ever express their opinion banks or the financial status of...

DN: They just depended on the bank. They had their whole crust in the Matewan National Bank. Everything they took care of them they depended on them, they looked after, daddy had helped them through his buying his homes. He bought two homes, he bought some property and they always took care of daddy.

B: Did anyone ever say um...did they bank lose its money during the depression? The Matewan National?

DN: Um-hum. And they issued their own money during the depression.

B: What kind of uh...you say they issued their own money?

DN: Um-hum. They issued their own money and it has the Matewan National Bank on it. It is signed by E. B. Chambers, Dan Chambers, and it's a series 1929 series. I have a ten dollar bill that daddy kept.

B: What did the bank do with this money?

DN: They used it.

B: So...and it kept the local economy going?

DN: Um-hum. Kept everything going. They issued their own money. I've got that down there in the bank.

B: Is there anything that I haven't ask you yet that you would like to talk about? Uh...

DN: I believe we've pretty well covered it...I've believe we've pretty well covered it.

B: Okay. Um...I'd like to ask you something that I heard on tape that if you don't want to talk about it you don't have to. Um... about your girlfriends dressing up one night and hitting the town. What did you all do?

DN: We just wanted to see what the inside of a beer joint looked like because we had never been in one. So Halloween gave us a good chance to do it.

B: What year was this?

DN: In uh...about 1950.

B: So you were married?

DN: Oh yeah. I dressed up in my     ______ work clothes. And my daddies part of my daddies clothes and part of my husbands clothes. In fact, I wore his combat boots that he had brought home from service. And I had blisters all over my feet the next day.

B: What did people say when they found out about your...

DN: They never knew who did it. They never knew who we were. And we never did tell.

B: What impressions did you all have of the beer joints?

DN: We thought it was terrible.

B: What did you all see?

DN: We just saw men and women sitting there drinking. Drinking beer and drinking beer. But you just didn't go in those places. B: Is that the married women and the unmarried girls?

DN: Nobody went in that were respectable people.

B: So there were women in there?

DN: Oh yes. Oh yeah.

B: Um...will you talk a little bit about um...say what was acceptable social behavior for the nice girls in town? What did you have to be - to be a nice girl in town? Did you have to be rich?

DN: No...no you didn't have to be rich at all. Everybody was poor but nobody knew it. Everybody was pretty much a like. But nice girls didn't go to beer joints. You went to school you went to football games, basketball games, you went to the movie occasionally. Mostly in the afternoons, but you had at my home the way I was raised all my friends would come to my house. We'd have little parties and make ice cream and I could bring the entire school home with me if I wanted to. Mom would just let us do anything that we wanted to. And we could go visit our girlfriends and when we had dates they'd come to the house. We did not go out with them. I don't know how we ever got managed to get married.

B: How about things like wearing make-up?

DN: No! we did not wear make-up. We did not wear make-up.

B: And this would have been more along your mother's time but girls that cut their hair say back in...did you your mother ever tell you about back in the '20's when girls cut their hair? What was said?

DN: You just didn't cut your hair. My mom's hair was never cut in her life. And grandmothers. All the girls until my mom had some surgery in her later years and she had to have her hair cut. That was the first time her hair was ever cut.

B: Was that uh...a social reason or religious reason why girls wouldn't cut their hair?

DN: It was just a way of life that uh...well they always said a women's hair was given to her for her glory. And they felt like it was long hair.

B: Okay. Um...ok we know something about the social standards for young women, how about young men? What...

DN: Well young men were pretty much the same way. They were... young men weren't allowed to just run loose and do what they wanted to do. In other words young men and young women both obeyed their parents as long as they lived at home and under their roof they abided by their parents.

B: It seems like uh...more young couples than people realize divorced in the '20's, and '30's, and '40's uh...how was that behavior looked upon in Matewan when people divorced?

DN: Not very good.

B: What kind of opinions were expressed about divorce back then? Do you remember?

DN: We didn't hear of to many divorces right in our communities. Around here I mean when you married you married that was it. And it was a rare occasion for divorces here.

B: What kind of expressions did people use?

DN: Our mom and daddy would tell us when we decided to marry if you burn your blister you sit on it. And you did sit on it. And you tried. That's the advice we got from our parents.

B: Did uh...what did people think about the topics of say infidelity or alcoholism involved in marriages? Was there ever any talk about...

DN: No.

B: Were they...

DN: If they did it they just excepted it and went on and did they best they could about it. If a wife had a drunken husband she just lived with him and tolerated it and went on and hoped for the best.

B: So with your own parents perhaps as an example what...what did children see of their personal relationship when you were growing up?

DN: Our mothers and daddy's they loved each other they respected each other. Our daddy's taught...they felt like our mothers were something special and they respected them and our mothers looked up to our daddies and in our home and in the ones that all of family that I was raised there was no drinking, there was no nothing like that. So it's hard for me to you know speak for people that did have it.

B: Did your parents ever say things like, I love you or used any endearments in front of their children that you knew of? Did your parents....

DN: I never...I don't think I ever heard my daddy ever say I love you or my mother I love you but believe me they did. And they were so close. Most of all it uh...it was just the way of life for them. Their everyday way of life that made you know there was love. Very much.

B: Can you think of anything in particular that makes you believe that your parents were deeply in love? What kind of things did they do say that you knew of?

DN: Well my parents were so close they were a very, very close couple. And where one was the other one was. Whenever one was involved the other was in with it. And uh...they were always sitting and talking and discussing things and they never had any. I can truthfully say that I never heard my mother and daddy have a harsh word. I really can say that.

B: Okay. Lets see...

Matewan Oral History Project Collection