Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Delma Wright Interview

Becky Bailey: This is Becky Bailey for the Matewan Development Center June 27th 1989. 9:15 in the morning I'm at the home of Mrs. Delma Wright and we're going to have our interview today. Um...Mrs. Wright when were you born and where?

Delma Wright: I was born December the 4th nineteen nine at Leck, Virginia, Dickinson County.

B: Okay. And were you born at home?

DW: Yes.

B: Okay. And who delivered you?

DW: Uh...my grandmother, a mid-wife.

B: Okay. Uh...who are your parents?

DW: Hewey Stallard and Lula Adkins Stallard.

B: And when were they born?

DW: My daddy was born July the 10th, eighteen and eighty-two. And my mother was born February the 20th, eighteen ninety.

B: Okay. Uh...Mrs.(she accidently said Smith) Wright what did your father do for a living?

DW: Well he was a farmer uh...for a long time and then he worked for W. M. Ritter Lumber Company.

B: And what did he do for the lumber company?

DW: He uh...hauled lumber they called it the high dock and he had a horse that pulled these buggies with lumber on them and they took them to the stacks of lumber and uh...the men then unloaded them and put them, stacked the lumber, put them up on top of stacks.

B: Okay. How many children were there in your family?

DW: Twelve.

B: And where did you fit in?

DW: Well I was the second one.

B: And what happened to the first baby?

DW: It was born...died...was stillborn.

B: Okay. How many brothers and sister did you have?

DW: I had nine brothers and two sisters.

B: Okay. Did your grandmother deliver all the children?

DW: Yes all but one.

B: Okay.

DW: Uh...we had at that time they had a doctor. And uh...well there was a mid-wife could delivered one or two before that one. And then the baby we had a medical doctor.

B: Did he come to the house or...

DW: Yes.

B: Did your mother ever have any difficulty with giving birth to any of the babies that you know of?

DW: No not that I know of. They was all borned natural. As far as I know or heard them say anything about it.

B: Okay. Um...lets see how far in school did you all go?

DW: Well I went to the fifth grade. Completed the fifth grade.

B: Okay. Did...how far did your brothers and sister go?

DW: Well I had two sisters, I mean both of my sisters graduated and I had one brother that graduated from high school.

B: Were they the youngest of the family?

DW: They was down next to the youngest.

B: What was your school like that you all went to?

DW: Well it was uh...just a one room building and we had uh...a well. They dug a well, hand dug well and put uh...we first had a just a water bucket with a rope that you let down in it and got the water out. And then after the uh...made the well buckets we got a bucket that was a long bucket and you could put it down, hit was a lot better than the water bucket. But you still had to crank...turn a crank you know to pull hit out.

B: Oh my goodness. How big was the school itself? How many rooms did it have?

DW: Just one room and we had outside toilets. And we had the heat, we had they called it a pot bellied stove and that's all the heat we had.

B: How long did you all go to school in the year? Do you remember?

DW: Uh...usually about five months, was the most of the school year. Cause all the children farmed, worked on farms and they wouldn't hold the school you know late.

B: How long was your school day? Do you remember?

DW: Well probably four maybe five, six hours.

B: What kind of things did they teach you?

DW: Well mostly they taught us uh...reading and writing and arithmetic. That was the three main things that and of course we had what they called...they called it grammar then. I don't know what they call it now. English I guess, but they really stressed those subjects. And everyone that went to that school even when you...if you got through the fifth grade you was almost equal to a high school uh...education now. Like them...we knew as much then as the high school children. Because we had to get our multiplication table every one had to know that. They just...you just didn't go there and sit you had to learn.

B: Who were your teachers?

DW: Well I can't remember all of them but Bessie McCoy was the first one. And then I had one a man teacher that was John McCoy and one Assylis Strath and then we left that school and went to another school and I had uh...a women teacher there was Vertie...Vertie Rose and that's...that's about all the teachers that I can remember a going to.

B: Why did you all change schools?

DW: Uh...my parents moved to another place and it was...we had...it was closer we had to go to this school. Of course we walked to all the schools.

B: Okay. So they were like neighborhood schools they ...

DW: Yes it was the same but this one was about...it had two rooms instead of the one.

B: Did the schools have names? What did they call the...

DW: Uh...well now the first one they called it the Bad Ridge school that was where we lived is on the Bad Ridge, and the other was called Flat Top.

B: Were the teachers uh...local people or were they people that had moved there to teach?

DW: They was just local people that grew up there in and went to school. And then a teacher if they completed the seventh grade then they could go to what they call the normal school and take training for about six weeks and then they could get a certificate to teach school and then naturally they had to go on every year they'd have to go you know back and renew their certificate. And then finally they had to go to high school and then some of course had.... they required college for them to teach.

B: Did you know anybody that did that? That went on to normal and became a teacher?

DW: Yes, some of my uh...classmates they went on to school and was teachers. They was three in my class that made teacher.

B: Goodness. What did they children do the rest of the year uh...on the farm? What kind of work did they do around the farm?

DW: Well most all the time uh...we had to get wood, we burnt wood for heat. And we'd have to get wood they had a horse they would haul...they'd call them poles or you know almost uh...little small trees they'd haul them and then we'd uh...we all would help saw it up and fix it in blocks and things that we could put it in the fire place. And they tried to always get....a we called it a back log as large as a log as they could you know, could manage. And they'd put hit in the back of the fire place they called that a back log. Well they put...they'd have just little pieces little poles uh...that they would put on the front of this had dog irons that they laid them on. And that would uh...my daddy would fix that and bank it of the night 'til hit would keep a fire 'til the next morning all they had to do then is stir it up and put some fresh poles in on it. And that back log would last fer close(to) a week.

B: So I think we're set again. Um...so we just talking about the back log.

DW: Yes.

B: How big was your home that you lived in?

DW: Well uh...we just had three rooms. But they was uh...extra large rooms. Uh...I remember we had three full size beds in one room. And we didn't have any what they call a living room like they do now. We just had chairs and rocking chairs for the... some of the older people and older men would make them they was homemade chairs.

B: Oh goodness. So did uh...in those three rooms what would be in those three rooms that you all lived in?

DW: Well we have...we'd have three...three beds cause there was always several of us at home at one time. And then we just have chairs that we could sit in. And uh...I can't remember of us ever having a chest of draws or anything like that. And we just uh...we had uh...what they call...they'd make these old time uh...chest that was like a cedar chest now only it wasn't that nice. But we'd fold our clothes and put them in that. And then uh...just hand them around where we could. And uh...in the kitchen we just had a little...little small I can't remember what they called it but it was just a little small stove didn't have any hood on it and they cooked on that and we had a table and uh...my daddy made uh...a seat just a bench fer us to sit on around the table they'd be six or eight of us sit on that bench. And he'd put hit (it) next to the wall so we'd have...lean agin (against) the wall and then we'd have maybe four or five chairs that you'd sit around on the other side of the table. We didn't have any refrigerator and there no... no way of air conditioning only...now my daddy fer refrigeration he uh...we always had a spring. Every family, they was always a spring on ever farm. And he built a little box and uh...put it down in this spring ditch and fixed it so the water hit was higher uh...up at the upper side. And the water would run through that and it would run on out. And we sit out milk in there and the water run continuous. All that time and it kept the milk cold. And then fer...in air conditioning we didn't have nothing like that but my mother when it was real hot at nights they...we'd carry water from a spring and she would throw that water under the bed. To cool the...to cool the house. And hit would cool it.

B: Really?

DW: Yes.

B: Oh goodness. What kind of uh...the last time we talked you said that your mother would wall paper the walls...

DW: Yes with uh...old catalogs. Now we always, some how they managed to get the catalogs and uh...they would...she would make her own paste, just take flour and stir it up in water and boil it 'til it was thick enough and they would put hot pepper...red pepper we called it...in that to keep the mice from cutting the paper and we'd put that paste on them and she would past them up on the walls and it made it look pretty and clean.

B: Okay. And uh...what kind of flooring did you all have in the house?

DW: Well they called it just old puncheon floors. It was big wide strips or lumber. They would go and just hew it out they didn't have no way...you couldn't get no lumber finished then but they would have t hew this out with some kind of uh they had a ...some kind of tool...that they could hew that down and make it smooth. And they always tried to get a white poplar they called it they put in the kitchen. And then we...my daddy would go in the hill and get uh...cut down just a small little hickory pole and he would peal that back from one end and it would make kindly a scrub brush. We'd scrub the floors with that. And we'd get sand from the...around the spring bank or we had a branch that run through the place. And we come and get white sand. And then we'd scrub that with that sand. And it made it look pretty and clean.

B: Did the boys do different chores from the girls when you were growing up? What kind of chores did you all have?

DW: Well we'd have to...they had to get wood for the stove had a cook stove had to burn wood to cook with. And then they'd have to get wood for the fireplace to keep fire. And we had uh...we raised hogs, had to feed the hogs had milk cows and just everything that there was to do we they'd help do it each one had a certain thing that they did. The boys helped with that and the boys helped do the dishes. Some of the time.

B: Okay. Uh...I believe the last time we talked you said you also had sheep. What did you all have sheep for?

DW: Well uh...there was two things they raised them for, well three. They would try to sell them you know the lambs if they could. And they raised them for the food when uh...they would kill them in the fall of the year and we would have mutton to eat and then they sheared the wool...they took the wool off and my mother would card that and spin it and make it in yarn and she would knit us socks...socks for the men and the boys. And they called the women's stockings. And we wore them during the winter.

B: How did your mother dye the wool that she used?

DW: Well uh...they couldn't die it all I mean it would now they first, they would take onions peelings and they some of them would you know kindly tan or red looking peelings on them. And they boil that and get that water and some way they would put that in there and it would change the color. And later in later years they got to where they could buy dye. But they couldn't when I was first growing up.

B: Okay. What kind of uh...crops did you all raise on your father's farm?

DW: Well we always had corn. And he raised some wheat and some buck wheat. And now buck wheat was fer uh...pancakes now they call them pancakes I don't know what we called them then. And we raised oats that was fer feed fer the cattle. And the horses during the winter. And then we raised cane and made our molasses and they... he raised uh...broom corn and made our brooms out of that. And we had uh...we raised pop corn we had it to pop. We popped it in a skillet on top of the stove. Had to put it in and keep shaking it just stand and shake it 'til it got done. And I don't remember if we raised anything else now. Oh well, we had all kinds of potatoes and garden vegetables.

B: Um...did your father had the buck wheat ground for flour or...

DW: Yes...yes.

B: Okay.

DW: And we'd have to clean that buck wheat he'd uh...take, fix, fasten a blanket to two poles and uh...there's...one would take each end of it and he would hold a bucket of that buck wheat up and just pour it slow and let the ones that had that blanket they would fan that and it would get all that trash and everything out of it and clean then to take it the mill.

B: Okay. What kind of um...goods did your parents buy at the store then?

DW: Well, uh...mostly only thing that they bought would be sugar and flour. Now we, sometimes we would have wheat flour but uh...a lot of times they would try to get a sack of flour they called them sacks of flour then. And they was in cloth...cloth sacks. And if some kinds of spices they would uh...they would have some kinds of spices. I know we could always get allspice. And that was mostly what they used for uh...flavor and baked apple pies and old time fruit cakes. And I don't think we ever had vanilla and any kind of flavoring like that 'til I was grown and almost married before I can remember buying any vanilla.

B: How about uh...tobacco or uh...liquor or anything like that? Did they ever buy that?

DW: Yes. Uh...well they raised their tobaccer mostly what they chewed. But uh...some times uh...if any of the men or any of in the family would smoke they would buy some kind of uh...tobaccer Prince Albert that they could smoke in a pipe. And uh...finally they got to they could roll a cigarette. They had little papers that'd come with this Prince Albert. And they rolled the cigarette. Now my daddy chewed tobaccer and my mother chewed tobaccer but they never...they didn't smoke. But my grandmother now she smoked a pipe.

B: Was this your...your grandmother the mid-wife?

DW: Yeah.

B: And what was her name?

DW: Marthie (Martha) Jane Rose Adkins.

B: Okay. Um...what kind of um...preparation did your parents for the meat? Like did you all season the beef or whatever and make hams with the pork for the winter or what did you all do?

DW: Yeah they uh...they cured the pork they could uh...they had a way I don't know how they did it but they salted the middlings. They put them down...laid them flat on like a table and would put at least an inch of salt over these middlings then they would separate them. There was one side that was real fat and the other side was like streak in bacon so they'd separate them and the ones that had the streaked in bacon they would try to cure that with uh....they could...finally they got some kind of smoke salt or something that they would put on that and it made it just like cured bacon like it is today. And the beef we would can it and then there was uh...some we would cut it in strips and dry it. You could dry it and keep it all winter long. And could just slice it. It would get real hard in that strip but you...-when you put it in water and softened it, it was just real good beef. And it kept all winter long.

B: How did you all can the beef?

DW: Well they uh...just boiled it. Had a big kettle and they'd cut it up in small pieces that would go in a fruit jar. They could some how they got the fruit jars and uh...we had the old time...I guess they called them aluminum lids. And rings, the rubber rings that you put that on and then you put this aluminum lid over it. And you cooked this 'til it was real tender. And then the sealed it up in a can and there was always enough of the juice or whatever you cooked it in. And they'd poor that over it and fill it up you know, cover it. And then seal it tight and that would keep them all during the winter. And we made sausage out of the pork we fried it and canned it. And hit would...hit was the best sausage. And the hams now the hogs they would cure them with uh...there was some of smoked salt and we didn't keep them fresh we just cured them. And they'd just hang...they would try to get some kind of cheese cloth. After they'd uh...hang you know and cure get cured. And then they'd cover them up with that and let them hang in the smoke house. And we had meat all winter. Just go slice it what-ever you wanted.

B: So this was kept in a seperate [sic] little building in the smoke house all your meats were?

DW: Yes had a little outside building. Everyone...every family had uh...they called it a smokehouse and that's where they cured their meat and kept it. And uh...they had a cellar fer to put canned stuff in. They'd dig down in the dirt and make a little building a little place to go back in down it'd be maybe three or four feet deep and then they'd put a little roof over top of it. And that would keep the food keep it from freezing.

B: How far would that be from the house?

DW: Well it just be a little ways. Just uh...oh maybe it's far from here. Out there at the gate. Just you know just close to the house.and we had apples and fruit and uh...my daddy, the house was high enough that he could dig a we'd didn't call it a basement then but it's like a basement and He would make...dig down and make little partitions just in the dirt leave the dirt fer a wall. And uh... he'd put different kinds of apples in that and their potatoes, they'd dig potatoes and put them in there and they kept all winter long.

B: How big was your parents farm? How many acres?

DW: We had nine acres.

B: My gosh, Okay. So it must have been pretty full then with all the different crops that your father had?

DW: Oh yes well we attended every...every bit of it. We didn't leave any of it to lay out. We tended every foot of it.

B: Did your father uh...fertilize or anything?

DW: Yes when uh...when they could get it of course now whenever I was at home uh...most of the fertilize they had was from the horses and cows, the manure they kept that and put it...they put it on the gardens and that was all the fertilize we had until...it was years later then that they could buy fertilizer.

B: Okay. And you were the oldest child right? The oldest surviving child?

DW: Yes.

B: Okay. What did uh...your parents do say when somebody got sick? What were some of the home remedies that you all used?

DW: Well for sore throat I guess they called it...Tonsillitis now. But we'd have real bad sore throats and...and my mother would take uh...vinegar now I don't know how they made their own vinegar some way they had uh...vinegar plant and they...she would take this vinegar and she would put some salt in it and some hot pepper and we'd gargle she'd fix that 'til we could we'd gargle with that. And then my daddy would go in the hills and mountains and dig yellow root. They call it golden seal now. And we could boil it and hit was good fer any kind of sore mouth or sore throat. And then they had a plant they called bone set. And they would dig the roots of that and boil it like when we had flu or we had flu sometimes then and real bad colds and you'd boil that and hit was strong, hit...it tasted awful but hit would help it.

B: For what kind of illnesses would a doctor come visit for? Did they doctor set bones or...

DW: Uh...they wouldn't come to the house only in emergency unless that hit was something that we couldn't take care of and I can't remember of a doctor coming to our house but one time. And one of my brothers had something like uh...they called inflammatory rheumatism then but it was a crippling disease. And he come to see him with that. But uh...we...we believed in prayer and prayed and we feel like that the Lord healed him. Cause the doctor told him he'd never walk no more. But he got well and is a living now and got a family and he's up in his seventies and still a going.

B: What was your religion?

DW: Well back then we went to the Freewill Baptist Church. But now I go to a Holiness Church. Now we all went to church and Sunday school. My Grandpa Stallard he always believe in Sunday school and he had just a little one room church and he taught us Sunday school.

B: Was he a minister there?

DW: Yes he was a minister.

B: Did your parents meet at church is that how they came to be married?

DW: Now I don't, I can't, I just don't know where they first met. But I don't think they met at church. But I believe...now my mother lived just a little ways from where my daddy did and they I think my daddy worked some for my grandmother...you know helping...

DW: My grandmother she always had a lot of sheep. She had more than we did. And she had one that was real wild and couldn't never get it to the house to feed it. Hit wouldn't...they wouldn't...it was just wild nature. And she told my daddy if he would catch that sheep and bring it in bring it to the house that he...she would give him my mother. She would have him fer his wife. Now that's kindly I guess how they met. I about forgot that.

B: Goodness. Um...how old were you when you discovered boys?

DW: Why I guess I was around fourteen. Maybe I'd talk to them before I was fourteen just a little...then they wasn't very many families that lived close together and so you didn't see very many boys or girls either.

B: What kind of social activities did they have for the young people?

DW: Well uh...that's where...we went to bean stringing and they had...they called uh..corn shuckings and as, at this bean stringing is where I met my husband. And you they'd pick all their beans oh I mean a lot of them. They'd have four or five bushel picking, bring them and lay them in the floor. And we all had to string them beans and then after we got the beans strung we could play games and whatever kind of games we played back then. As long as we wanted to. They didn't have no set time to make us go home.

B: What kind of games did you all play?

DW: Well uh...at the bean stringing they had a somebody picked a banjer (banjo) and they'd always be somebody that would dance. I never could dance but my husband he could and they called it a hoe down. That's a old time hoe down and I don't' know if you've ever seen it. But I think it...I...this is still a pretty dance now, I think. Not too many people does it. In daytime now we played croquet. I know you've heard of croquet. Well they was a family, a man especially he cleaned off a place you had to have a place that I'd say was at least fifteen feet long and all maybe farther than that maybe twenty feet. And they'd clear that and get it just as smooth as it could be. And then we'd put out wickets up there and have our mallets and balls. And we'd play that on Sunday's, all day long. And we really enjoyed it. And we'd play and they called it round town. That was kindly of a ball game. We played that at school and played hide-and-go seek. We just we didn't have very many games and but we had spelling races. On Friday evening at...ever Friday evening at school we uh...chose up sides you know had so many on one side and so many on the other. And we all spelled 'til we spelled the last one down. And I was a good speller. I usually was the one that won that game. But I can't spell that good now.

B: Did you all ever play games like London Bridge?

DW: Yes. I'd forgot it.

B: One of the food uh...products that I forgot to mention was did you all eat fish much?

DW: Uh...yes we uh...we had to go to the creek. We didn't live close to a river. They called it creek, course hit was uh...hit was a large creek and had a lot of water in and it had deep holes and where they had swimming holes they called it they went swimming. And then we...we had places where we'd go fish. And uh...we didn't fish fer fun like people does now we fished for food. When we went...we had whatever we caught we brought it back to the house and my mother would clean it and fry it and fix and bake cornbread we'd just have a real good meal.

B: What kind of fish did you all catch?

DW: Well uh...suckers. They called them suckers they was about twelve inches long. We'd catch some of them. And then hit was it's agin (against) the law to do that now but we'd go to the creek and we'd take us a little meal sack, or flour sack, it was cloth. And they uh...the boys...I was the only girl 'til I was fourteen years old and I always went with them. And they took uh...a sledge hammer and uh...and they'd see fish run in under a rock they'd hit this rock and that would kill the fish. And they'd run out you know and we'd get them up and put them in that sack. Well some-times we'd have a gallon or more fish. And take them home.

B: Did your mother ever preserve any or did you all eat them all fresh?

DW: No we just fried them as quick...she didn't....she didn't know nothing about preserving fish.

B: Okay.

DW: But now she preserved foods I mean she canned...she canned apples and dried apples and canned peaches and dried beans and laid out the butter and made jelly. And we had bees now, we had honey. And I can remember whenever we had half a gallon crocks they called them jars and they was a stoneware. Well she's would take this... she'd boil this bees uh...comb down someway and make bee's wax out of it. And she then...she could uh...she'd fix that and have it kind of soft and she would seal her jars of apple butter and jelly or whatever that she made and Jam she made ever kind of a preserves that you could think of. And she could this here bee's wax over that and hit would stay...would form a about a half an inch thick and then you'd...that's kept just 'til you broke on it. And after you broke on it of course you'd eat it you know before it spoiled. They didn't have anyway to keep anything.

B: Um...let's see did your mother make soap or did she buy soap?

DW: Uh...they made their own soap. They called it lye soap. And I...my daddy he made uh...little old building about four feet wide and maybe about six or eight feet high and he would save wood ashes they called this a hopper. And they'd poor them wood ashes up in the top of this and some way another hit would uh...hit would drain out. He had a place where it could drain out down at the bottom. And that...-they...that was called...they made their own lye. And they used that...oh you didn't get very much but hit made enough to make their soap. And they made their soap out of meat scraps just uh...oh shoulder scraps and pieces of fat and things that they wouldn't hardly eat. And they'd put that lye stuff in there and boil that down 'til hit made a soap.

B: What did you uh...mother do, on say, wash day? Did she have one particular day that she did washing on?

DW: Yes. Uh...but I can't remember what day...most of the time I think it was on a Monday. And we had a warsh place. They called it a warsh place cause they...there was plenty of water there and uh...the whole neighborhood come to this place and warshed. They'd be there the same day and uh...they had uh...these old big boilers iron...cast iron boilers they'd heat their water in that. And then uh...my uh...uncle and my Grandpa Stallard they would make tubs they would go get...whittle them out of the wood some way and make a tub and fix hit 'til hit would hold the water. And they we'd uh...have some kind of a wars board but sometimes they would just take a stick and beat their clothes 'til they'd get them clean you know. And then they'd put them in this water and boil them. And then rinch (rinse) them...and they was clean.

B: Did uh...did your parent uh...buy your clothes when you were children or were they homespun?

DW: Well uh...some of them was made out of flax. My grandmother had a loom that she could weave cloth. And they made some of our clothes out of them. And uh...I don't...I just can't remember but anyway I know they had to buy...they could get a little cloth then. Sometimes they could get this denim cloth they called it and make the boys little pants. And uh...get uh...they call it calico cloth that was about all the cloth they was. And they make them shirts and the girls dresses out of this calico.

B: How old were you when you uh...met your husband?

DW: I was right around sixteen.

B: Was he your first boyfriend?

DW: No...no I had had one or two. Just...but not...not really I mean of course I've talked to two or three before ever I met him.

B: How did you meet him?

DW: At one of these bean stringings.

B: How far away did he live from you?

DW: About twenty or twenty-five mile.

B: How long did you all court?

DW: Uh...three year.

B: What kind of things did uh...did you all do when he came to visit?

DW: Well we usually why he always had to stay all night. He'd come on Saturday and stay all night then go back home on Sunday. And we would just sit around and talk and sometimes we'd take little walks and go around the place. And sometimes we'd play little games like uh...they had one they called fox and goose. I don't know if you ever knew that. And uh...and I can't remember they had uh...some other kind of games that we played but I just can't remember what they were.

B: How did he get to your house?

DW: Well uh...they was a train that run...about hit, I guess hit would have been about ten fifteen mile that he could ride the train and then he walked the rest of the way.

B: How did you all come to be married?

DW: Well we just decided I reckon that we wanted each other and we was engaged fer uh...year I guess before we married. We just kept waiting, we wanted to be sure that...that we knew what we was doing. And undoubtedly we did cause we've been married sixty years now.

B: Did he have to ask your father for permission?

DW: He asked my mother. I don't think he asked my father. But she was more...I mean uh...she took more care of the children than uh...of course he was gone a lot of the time and naturally he just left it up to her to discipline us whatever she need do. He never did whip us. I don't remember him ever...ever touching me in any way to punish me. He left that all up to my mother and I guess that uh...my husband he...he knew that so he asked her. And she agreed.

B: Where were you all married?

DW: We's married at my daddy's house. And had uh...just a minister our Reverend McFarlane was his name. And he come to the house. And I remember his...my husband's daddy and one of his sisters came for the wedding. We just had a few neighbors just maybe six or eight that come in. And mommy had a supper cooked we all...I don't remember what she had cooked but we had a good supper. She always cooked a good meal. And then the next day we went to his home.

B: Where did you all live at first?

DW: Well we stayed with my mother because he lost his job when he got off or coming to get married. We got married on Monday and he didn't go to work on Monday and they...he lost his job. So we stayed with my mother for four or five months. And then he went to uh.. ...Kentucky uh...Harlan County, Kentucky. That's where we went. And he got a job there and he stayed a week or two and then he'd come back got somebody to bring him and pick me up and we went back then.

B: What kind of work did he do in Kentucky?

DW: Uh...he worked for a lumber company.

B: What did he do?

DW: He uh...tipped green lumber. What they called it you know. It was green lumber and they tipped it...they had to hand it up some way they had a little platform here that they could slide it on and they'd run it to a man up on top of the stacks. When they first started it was just a little stack. But as it kept on going on up it got higher and higher and they had...they called it tip-ping it to that. And he was a lumber stacker. The man that was on the...on the stack.

B: What did you do did you keep house or...

DW: Yes...yes I just kept house...that's all. We got a little company house we had three rooms to start out with. And had a fire-place and we had a little cook stove. And he made us a table to eat off of and we bought three chairs from the company store. And got one bed. Got springs and mattress and one bedstead. And that's what we had to start out with.

B: So the...the lumber company had a company store then just like the coal company?

DW: Yes...yes they had uh...store. You could trade at the store. And they'd let you...they called it a lease. You could uh...buy so many things you know and they'd take out so much out of each payday fer you, 'til you paid for it.

B: Had your mother taught you how to cook before you left home?

DW: Oh yes...yes I can't ever remember when the first bread I ever baked. I must have been about six or eight years old. But she taught us to make break and corn bread. I baked cornbread first. And then she let me make biscuits. I know it was a mess but she kept on 'til she...I could make pretty good biscuits. And then I cooked beans. We just mostly had bean and potatoes and cabbage. We had plenty of cabbage. Plenty of greens and we had...usually we had some kind of pork or beef. Or one...every now and then we'd have mutton. So we...we had good eating.

B: How long did you and your husband live in Kentucky?

DW: Uh...about two or three years. And then we come back home what we called home. And he got a job back with W. M. Ritter Lumber Company. Where they had fired him those years before. And we stayed there...we lived there nine years. And he worked uh...in a pond what they called a pond. They'd bring the logs in out of the mountains and put them in this pond to warsh them. And he had uh...to had some kind of an instrument. A big old long thing that he would fork these logs with and start them up a ramp. They'd go up little...on wheels and they'd go up to the saw where they sawed them. And that was his job.

B: Oh, Okay. Did you all have children?

DW: Yes we had three children and I...we adopted one.

B: When were your children born?

DW: I didn't understand.

B: When were your children born?

DW: Uh...one the first one was borned in 1930 and the next one in 1933 and the next one 1935. And then we adopted a son in uh...I can't remember...he was borned in 1954. I guess we adopted him in about '64 or '67. He was about fourteen years old.

B: Um...was he a relative of yours?

DW: He was our grandson.

B: How did you all come to adopt him?

DW: Well his father was in service when he was born and uh...naturally we was keeping his mother. She stayed with us while he was gone to service. And he was borned in a hospital. Now he was born in a hospital. And we brought him back to our house and we kept him. And his daddy didn't see him 'til he was eight months old. And then by that time he...he was just our baby. He never was... never did want to stay with them. And they tried to keep him and tried to make him stay with them until he was about three years old. And then we kept him from then on and they wouldn't never agree to adopt him to us 'til he was about fourteen. They said they'd be giving him away but they'd already give him away. Cause we already had him. And had got...it was time then that I was old enough that I could draw social security if I had a child that was under eighteen. And so they agreed then to let us adopt him so that I could draw social security and then he would have social security too. And we kept him then. He stayed at home some but not very much. And then he went in service when he was about nineteen. And he's still in service.

B: Uh...did his parents have other children?

DW: They had four...four others.

B: Okay. Were your uh...did you have three daughters then?

DW: I just had one daughter.

B: One daughter and two sons?

DW: And three...and three boys.

B: Oh, okay. Um...how were they born? Were they delivered by a mid-wife or a doctor?

DW: Uh...no now our daughters children were all borned in a hospital.

B: Okay.

DW: They had hospitals then I mean that they take you to. But now uh...I forgot the baby one, the girl they just had the one girl she was borned in a funeral home.

B: Oh my goodness.

DW: I wanted to get that in. They started with them to the hospital and it was a colored man that was driving the ambulance and he told her he said "now uh..." said uh... "I won't deliver a white baby" he said "if it was colored then I do that but" said now "it's a white baby and I won't deliver it" and he said...and they was going by the funeral home he said "I'm gonna take you in here and let the funeral home director deliver ya" And so he did and they delivered there and he waited and took her onto the hospital

B: Okay. So this was your...your daughter was giving birth?

DW: Yeah.

B: Oh, okay.

DW: Uh-huh. Yeah my daughter. The only girl we had.

B: When you uh...gave birth to your three did you have them at home?

DW: Yes, all of them was born at home. We had uh...family doctor. I didn't have a mid-wife. And one of my children...well I was just right by myself when it was born. I had a lady that was staying with me and she got scared and went...she was gonna try to get one the neighbors to come and stay with her. And so it was born while she was gone.

B: Oh my goodness.

DW: And I was by myself. But I made it okay.

B: Did you have any difficulty in any of your births?

DW: Our baby one, the girl she was born uh...feet first. And that was kindly bad. But I made it good.

B: Where was your husband when you were...when you go into uh...labor? Did he stay with you or...

DW: Uh...yes he stayed only this time the one that I had by myself...wasn't nobody there. He had gone to get the doctor and uh...was going to get a mid-wife that helped him. She was like a nurse she always went with him. and uh...some how another he'd didn't find them just when he thought he would and they didn't get there 'til the baby was already borned...and already there. But he's with me the other two.

B: Was that typical for the husband to stay with the wife?

DW: Yes...yes that was the usual thing.

B: What would the husband do?

DW: Just walk the floor mostly.(laughter)

B: Would he be in the room with you or...

DW: Part...part of the time. Part of the time he'd go in the kitchen or in anther room. I remember when there the one...the baby one...the last was borned in they knew there was problems but they didn't tell me. But I knew by the way they was acting and talking I knew there was something wrong. And uh...he was really scared about that.

B: Did uh...did you have any health problems after that? Was that the reason why you only had three children?

DW: Well I had uh...a whole lot of health problems and uh...the doctor he didn't want me to have any more. And so we didn't... didn't try to have any more.

B: Okay. When did you all come to West Virginia?

DW: In 1943.

B: Why did you all come?

DW: Well my brother was uh...foreman they called them then. And uh...he wanted my husband to come with him and my husband was working inside the mines at that time and naturally he wanted to get out of the mines. And so he told him he would come with him. And he...he was gonna give him a job and let...he was gonna teach him carpentering and painting and hanging paper and plumbing and all work like that. So he...he just come on with him come to Red Jacket.

B: So was that the kind of work that he did when he came to...

DW: Yes when he come uh...the uh...my brother he had the job of rebuilding all of Red Jacket camp. They uh...the houses naturally had run down and got in bad shape and all of them needed repair. And he had to have carpenters to do the wood work. And they had to have painters that would paint. And then he had to have plumbers that would put in plumbing. They didn't put bathrooms now in very many houses then. Just the more uh...prominent people we called them, bosses. And they put bathrooms in for them. And they repaired the club house, the was oh...we called it club house, it was a boarding house. And they kept men...the men that wanted to stay there they kept them and let them work.

B: I'd ask you about your life away from home and one question I'd like to go back and ask you is about life in Harlan, Kentucky?

DW: Well we uh...when we stayed at McClure, Virginia 'til the... the band mill shut down. And we had to leave. And uh...we went to Harlan...Harlan County, Kentucky. And lived there about three years. And hit...they called hit Bloody Harlan. Because there was two groups of people that was enemies to each other. Sort of like the Hatfield's and McCoy's. And uh...I don't know their trouble, don't know what they fell out over. But we lived there during the time that they killed a lot of people on each side. And uh...we could hear...we heard the shots one time when they was a killing ...they'd killed three or four at that one time. And uh...they would...the law...when the law would come and get them usually they would kill the law. Once in a while maybe somebody would make an arrest but if...if...if they sentenced them or give them any kind of punishment usually the judge or whoever did it. They would some-body then somebody would kill them. And uh...we lived in a little place just in about a three room house and they would walk and come by our house. But we couldn't...we was afraid to hardly speak to them. We didn't want to have nothing to do with them because we didn't know what they might want to do to us. And we knew we was there a working maybe taking...might have took some of their jobs. But I remember once incident that one of them was walking up by our house and uh...he had...was carrying a sack of flour on his shoulder. Everybody had to carry their own groceries and walk. And hit fell off and fell down on the railroad track and he just pulled out his gun and shot it full of holes. And that was right in...right at our house. I witnessed that. And then one time uh...there was one come to our house. And he wanted to make my husband dance. They...that's their...was their game they wanted, you know to have fun. And uh...we had a neighbor that was an old timer and lived there...lived right close to us. And he heard this man over there and he wasn't afraid of them he got along with them and they knew not to bother him. So he come and got him and told him that he couldn't mistreat us like that. And that's all I guess that saved us. And one time my brother was visiting there and uh...him and my husband they had walked up the track and this my brother was a dating a girl that one of these men liked. And so they shot all around their feet. And they come home then and they didn't go no more. And that's about all that I can remember you know just...of course it was a nice place to live. And the company was real nice. We had a little company house and we got along good. And all but... just them.

B: What were their names? Do you know?

DW: Uh...Howard was one of the last names. And I can't remember the other group...what their name was. I'm sorry.

B: Um-hum. Did...that's okay...when uh...they would try to make your husband dance did they shoot at his feet

DW: Yes...

B: was the..

DW: They'd shoot around him. They'd shoot a ring...around you and and maybe unload a pistol. And all of them carried one or two guns anytime you seen them. Anywhere they was at. If they went into the store if they went to work. Whatever they did they had those guns.

B: Were they mountain people or...

DW: Yes...yes...yes just mountain people.

B: I suppose the next thing we ought to talk about is to uh...to get back to Red...your life at Red Jacket.

DW: Yes.

B: You say your husband came in 1943 and he helped to rebuild the camp?

DW: Yes.

B: Okay. What kind of house did you all live in then?

DW: Well we just had uh...little two rooms when we first come to Red Jacket my brother let us live in two rooms of his house and then the company in about a year they let us rent uh...we got a pretty good house. It was about a six room house. And we lived in it for a while. And my husband and my brother and the men that worked for him they...they remodeled the house and did it over painted and had it in good shape. And they didn't charge you for doing the work. That was just something that they did fer their men that worked. And uh...then we uh...they went to selling the Red Jacket houses the company did. And uh...well we had already moved in this house where they was gonna sell. And they give us...the ones that lived in them...well you had a choice. You had the first choice. You could buy it or move. And so they...-they fixed it so that we could pay our lease. They let us pay seven hundred and twenty dollars down. They took that out so much each month. And when we paid that seven hundred and twenty dollars then we had to decide whether we wanted to buy this house or move. And if we moved they would give us that seven hundred and twenty dollars back but if we stayed in the house they credited that on...on the house and so we bought the house and stayed in that house. I guess we stayed up there for thirty year at least in this one house.

B: How much did you all pay for your house?

DW: The interest and all...everything...all of it together was four thousand dollars.

B: How long did your husband work for the company at Red Jacket?

DW: Well I couldn't tell you exactly the years. But I know he worked from 1943 course part of that was in the repairing the houses and then he went to the 17 mine. And uh...worked there 'til he was uh...in 1970. From '43 'til 1970. That's how longed he worked he retired in 1970. B: How old was he then?

DW: He was 62. The company ask him to go in uh...low coal at 28 inch high and uh...he couldn't do it. He told them he'd uh...he'd quit before he'd go in that. And uh...he was already 62 and he knew he could get social security. And he told them that if they would give him a cut off slip and let him draw unemployment 'til he could get social security that he would just take it...and that's what he did.

B: Okay. When did you all come to this house?

DW: In 76 I believe. Yeah hit was the year...no 77 I'm mistaken. Uh...it was 1977 it was uh...in November just after the 77 flood. That we moved to this house.

B: What do you remember about the flood of, '77?

DW: Well uh...hit was...hit was real close I mean it got up in some of these houses here where we live now. I mean got up to the porch but it never...it didn't...we lived on up the road oh about a half a mile. And it didn't bother us up there. But they was people that was uh...stranded and that couldn't get home and I remember we kept one family fer about two days 'til the water would go down. And my husband now I remember very well that he worked in all of that flood. He helped them uh...well it was mostly security guard he watched. And uh...they...they took...they had a temporary bank in a trailer up here they moved his got the trailer. And they put....kept the money up there and he would have to go with these girls and men to take the money back down to Matewan. And then they'd pick up money and...and bring it back up there. And he'd go with them to guard that. He...he worked with them and there was mud he'd come home with mud all over him. It was up to his knees. And but he would wade that mud and help them and he guarded to keep uh...there was a lot of people uh...looters they called them. They tried to steal you know would try to go in houses where that they was anything left. There wasn't much left in the houses. And of course there was some things that was left in the bank and they would try to slip in and...but he'd have to help keep them out. And he done that 'til they got everything straightened back up.

B: Who did he work for doing that security guard work?

DW: Uh...he'd work for the...it was the bank.

B: Okay.

DW: And at that time Red Jacket wasn't...I mean there wasn't working or...he was retired. He was retired then at that time. That's why he was a security guard.

B: Okay. If you don't mind I'm gonna run through some events, like chronologically, and ask you what you remember about them.

DW: Okay.

B: What do you remember hearing about World War I? I know you were a little girl...when we got involved?

DW: Yes...Yes I was a little girl. Uh...that war ended in 1918. Well I was born in 19 and 9 so I was nine years old. But I can't remember it very much because at that time my daddy was of age that he had to register to go in the war. And I know we all just...we just about went crazy cause we thought he was gonna have to leave. And we though that was the most terrible thing that could ever happen to anybody for our daddy to leave. And I can remember one serviceman that had been in the war and he come home. And he lived ...his parents lived close to us and he'd come...he come and visited us. And I can remember I thought that uniform...that was the nicest looking person that I ever seen with all that...that was the only time I'd ever seen a service man. But then the war ended before that my daddy had to go. And so he didn't have to go. When I had...I can remember another thing about that in 1918 uh...one of my brothers was born on the January the 9th, 1918. And that was just about the time that the war was over with. And that's about all that I can remember now about that war.

B: Okay. How about the flu epidemic? I know we talked before about your uncle?

DW: Yeah. Well now that was the flu epidemic was then about that time. Or maybe a year or something before that. Maybe two years before the war ended. And uh...I can remember we all...everyone in our family had it. And but usually there'd be one that would get better enough 'til they wait on the other group of the family. But my uncle I can remember very much about him. And uh...he was a favorite uncle I liked him and his family. And he had two young men that died in that flu epidemic. And there wasn't nobody that would go to his house to help him or visit or anything. And he had to make caskets for these two young men and had to bury them his-self. Now I can remember that much about that.

B: Were they his sons?

DW: His sons yes.

B: About how old were they do you remember?

DW: Well they was almost the age that they would have had to went in the war if it would have lasted you know. And I can remember of his wife, my uncles's aunt asayin' or the mother told me that I can't remember of her a hearing or saying it but she said "she'd rather see them dead as to see them go to war". War was a terrible thing then. Of course people seem now their used to it. But it's still a terrible thing. But back then that was new you know. And then...I've heard my mother talk about it that she got her wish that they died and didn't have to go to the war.

B: What do you uh...remember about the movies? Did you all have a movie theater near where you all lived?

DW: Well there was one that was in four or five miles where we lived. It was just a silent movie. And I remember I went one time to this movie. We had to walk I don't know how many miles. We had to walk there and back. And I didn't like it. I didn't think there was anything to it. I mean I didn't think it was any good so I never did go back.

B: What was...what was the story about? Do you remember? Was it a western or uh....

DW: Yea ah...I think it was a western. I believe it was. And you'd just seen them up there on that wall and you know just seen them in action. But you couldn't hear they didn't have sound or any words they didn't say nothing.

B: How much did it cost you do you remember?

DW: Ah...I can't remember but I don't think it was over 15 or 20 cents. Just...just a few cents.

B: What stands out in your mind about the Great Depression? I know you got married what in 1929?

DW: Yes.

B: What do you all remember about the Great Depression?

DW: Well we had it real rough then. All my children was borned... there was three that I had you know they was borned during that depression. And uh...the last one was borned in 1935 and it was getting...beginning to get kindly over with by that time. But I can remember that the company store they let us have groceries. We could go and charge them for the day and they let you have so much uh...each day whatever you need or what ever you need or each week. Whatever you wanted to do. And they would charge it to you and then there wasn't no work. They didn't work. And uh...they then they would wait on you 'til they started back to work and they would hold this out of your payday. And we...we tried to not go in debt anymore than we just had to, just you know flour and things that we had to have that's what we bought. But we raised most of our own food. Our garden stuff and had our own cow and hogs, chickens and we didn't have to buy very much stuff. But hit was a rough time and I know my husband him and one man went...they hitch hiked and went for ah...for several miles trying to find work. And they didn't find work and came back finally and then seemed like it was in February that they started back to work. And we stayed there then 'til he left a going to Harlan County.

B: So the first company store that you were talking about was a company store in Virginia?

DW: Yes.

B: Okay.

DW: Yes and they had uh...they did have some scrip that they let you have but mostly they had this register they called it with little books of tickets I know you've seen them. Where they charge you know I think some people has them yet. And they would charge on that and uh...it was a yellow and a black ticket. Well they'd give you the yellow one and they kept the black one you know. And you traded and then they took that out of your pay each...each two weeks. They never did pay only the two weeks. And part of the time they just paid once a month. And they would hold that out then. That's the way we bought our groceries what we had to have.

B: Were there ever any pay periods when your husband didn't draw any money at all?

DW: Oh yes.

B: Okay.

DW: Yes there were several times that he didn't work and didn't... hardly have nothing. And I remember then we...then we could get clothes already made you know we called them store clothes. And we'd have an account with Montgomery Ward. And we could pay about five dollars a month and we could trade...we could get about a hundred dollars uh...credit. And we could get plenty of clothes for that...to do us you know for that season and then we'd pay five dollars a month 'til we'd get that paid. And then we'd reorder it when we needed something else.

B: Did you vote when you were young?

DW: No...no I never did vote 'til we moved here to Red Jacket I voted a few times. Now my mother voted I don't know if you remember...I know you can't remember when Woodrow Wilson was running for President. But he come out on the ticket and he said vote for him and you'd have peace wouldn't be no war. Well Teddy Roosevelt he was running he said "vote for him and prepare for war" well that when they first let the women go to voting. And my mother voted for him thinking you know that it would keep out of war. But hit didn't. In a little while after he was elected he declared war. But now I voted after we come to Red Jacket. A few times but I didn't...I got tired of it and didn't want to fool with it.

B: What did you all think of um...Franklin Roosevelt and Herbert Hoover? What...what were the feelings...

DW: Well now there was a lot of hate toward Herbert Hoover because uh...then people just about starved. The unless you already had a little bit of money or something you just...you just couldn't hardly make it. And I remember that was...now we...I think that we lived in Kentucky at the time that uh...Roosevelt...Franklin Roosevelt was elected. And I know that my husband and all the men around there they were so tickled they almost had a party. Uh... rejoicing you know that he was elected and they though that he would help the situation and naturally he did. He weren't in office buy just little while 'til everything began to pick and people began to get work and had plenty of work.

B: So was your husband...did he ever tell you was he democrat or a republican? What were you?

DW: Well my parents was originally republicans and I...I held to that but...and he was a democrat. But whenever I voted I didn't vote a straight ticket. I voted for the one that I though would be the best. I guess I was just part democrat and part republican.

B: Do you know why your parents were republicans?

DW: Well their parents were republicans and so I don't know..it was just a tradition that they followed.

B: The times that you did vote did you vote the same as your hus-band or did you all talk about it?

DW: Yes we usually agreed on who that we thought would be the best person. And voted that was like in the schools and uh...just different things you know for office. I guess some of it was governors we'd just talk about it and decide. I never...I don't think I ever voted against him. I think I voted the way he did.

B: How about uh...World War II? What do you remember the most about World War II?

DW: Well the most that I remember about World War II I had a brother that was killed. In and uh...France. He was in France. And he's killed in July uh...1944. I can't...July the 26th, 1944. And uh...I know that my brothers well some of them had to go in service and then my husband's brothers some of them went in service. But I know the main most that I can remember that stands out the most was my brother being killed and the we waited so many year before they could bring him back home. And uh...of course when they did bring him back we couldn't open him we didn't know that it was him. But we believed it was. And they sent my mother his uh...billfold and pictures that he had in it and it was some of it was girls that he had dated there at home and his knife and we got the things and we...we believed that, that was his body.

B: How long did it take for his body to come back?

DW: Well it was close two years.

B: Two years..

DW: Before they sent it back.

B: Did they ration things around here? What did you...

DW: Oh yes. But now that is something that I wished I'd looked up some of those old ration books I think I've got some somewhere. But I know we had a...they called it a book that had coupons in it. And it was for different things you had uh...some was for coffee and sugar and canned fruits and uh...different kinds of food and wars powders you had to have a coupon to buy that. And then you had to have uh...coupon to buy uh...kerosene oil. We called it lamp oil then. And you had to have coupon to buy shoes. And I know we always tried to manage to keep coupons for this oil because that's the only way we had to light was the oil lamp. And we and a lantern. I've still got our oil lamp. That we used back then. And hit made a good light. And the shoes now you had...you could just get so many pairs a family which was allowing so many pairs... well I know we'd have to try to watch there's so of them that wear out shoes quicker than the others. And we'd have to give them the extra coupon. So they could have extra shoes. And uh...they had a lot of sandals we called them then. And uh...they you didn't have to have coupons for them and during the summer time the women and the girls they always they wore these sandals. And didn't have to have good shoes. But in the winter time we had to have good shoes. And they was people...we would swamp if they was something that they did-n't...couldn't...didn't want to eat like canned fruit or something like that why we would exchange coupons you know. And uh...they would buy the things that they liked and we would get the things that we liked. And I remember my brother one of them and they had the most children of any of the family, of our family. And he had six children. Well uh...if I could at all I would try to manage by them a pair a shoes. I guess I think we had to go and buy it with our coupon. We couldn't hardly you know just give it to them and let them. Because it...some way you wasn't supposed to exchange them. And uh...if I could spare it at all I'd let them because they was so many more than them. We just had three at that time. So we all shared and we got along good. We made it and had enough to eat. I can remember I know that I've shared worse powders with my mother. She couldn't hardly get worse powders. And that was a bad time in a way but they had rules and regulations and things that we could make it.

B: I want to go back just real quick and ask you when you said your aunt said she'd rather have her sons than go to war do you remember was World War I an unpopular war where you lived? What kind of things did people say about the war?

DW: Well uh...now we didn't have much of a way of getting any news. Uh...I can't remember I don't think we even had any kind of a newspaper at that time. And people they knew that there was killing you know that's the most that they knew about it. They knew there was killing and they knew that a lot of them was getting killed and that I think was the worst thing about it. They was just afraid they wouldn't get to come back home.

B: Okay. How about World War II? What kind of things do you re-member about World War II? Do you remember any of the, like Roosevelt fireside chats or anything like that, did you have a radio?

DW: We had a radio. I believe at that time...well I'm not sure now that we had a radio. We probably didn't have radio at that particular time. But it wasn't long 'til we got a radio and we could get the news. And i know I was always glad to hear him tell you know about what they was gonna do. And when they opened the banks and they had closed the banks before he was elected. And I know we was all enthused about him a going open up the banks and get work and have work and he had a uh...they called it WPA then. And that was fer young men that couldn't get jobs and they...it was kind of like these youth workers now. You know that they let them cut grass and do things in the summer time. They would let them join this and they had to go...they had a camp they kept them in a camp. And they let them do all kinds of different work and they paid them so much and that helped...that helped all the young men that was around our community. But I know I can remember my brother now Carlis (Carlos) let...the one that got killed in the war. He tried to get on this but somehow or another there was something that happened that he never could get on it and that's why he went in service. Because then boys could go in service and they got so much money and naturally there wasn't any other work and they would go in service. Not realizing that they would be in a war. But they needed the money and needed the pay and uh...I can remember my brother particular the one that was killed. That he solider boys could make a lot...to their parents or to their wife whoever they had. He wasn't married. And he made a fifty dollar allotment it to my mother and daddy when he went in service and they got that as long as they lived. I mean they...and he made an insurance... had insurance to my mother. He made it to her. I don't know why that he didn't make it to my daddy but he just made it to her and uh...she drawed on that as long as she lived. So he did a good thing. I mean by going in service course we all hated that he had to die but he helped them and helped them as long a they lived. They drew a pension from the government cause he was killed.

B: Okay. What did you all think of uh...somebody say like Adolph Hitler? What do you remember hearing about him during the war?

DW: Well I can remember that everybody hated him. They wanted him killed. Cause that was the one I mean I think he was in when the World War II was and uh...all the boys that went in service they hated him. I can remember that much about it.

B: How about the...our war with Japan since we were fighting in the Pacific too? What did you hear about that?

DW: Well I can remember uh...we was...we lived in Virginia at that time and uh...they announced on the radio uh...my mother had a radio that uh...they had done all that damage to the United States and I know everybody was disturbed and I believe that was in 1941. I'm not positive but I think it was in 1941. And uh...they uh... wasn't very long then I don't know might have not have been a week I don't know how long it was but then they declared war on Japan. And I know that hurt a lot of us because we knew those boys in ser-vice would have to stay they couldn't come home. Even when their term you knows they signed so many years but then when that was up when there was war going on they froze them and they had to stay. And now that I just don't remember too much about it.

B: I have just a couple more questions for you. Uh...what did you think about the different company stores that...that you uh... you shopped in. What did you think about your husband working for the company and living in a company house and having to go to a company store? What did you think about that?

DW: Well we was...we was real glad that we could. We's proud that they had it. Uh...because hit was...they was all nice stores and they was nice people that worked in the stores. And uh...they uh... they would let you lay away things like they do now. And uh...if they got any new things they all...we knew everybody then everybody knew each other then. They was neighbors. And they would let us know when they had something that we...that they thought we would like. And if we didn't have the money or couldn't spare if for that uh...half...they called it a half you know that you was a working. They would put it away put it in a package and keep it for your until you could pay for it. And then we could get a lease and if we needed furniture we could buy whatever kind of furniture we had...course I guess there was a limit on how much you could trade but uh...then they took that out uh...so much each half. And you paid for it and...and didn't really miss it that much. And then you could charge your groceries go to the store and then even when they was the company was shut down or weren't working they would uh...let you trade a dollar each day. And of course larger families now they could trade more but we small family and we could trade one dollar each day. And you'd be surprised the things that you could buy for one dollar then. You could buy ten yards of cloth. Cotton material to make a dress or anything fer one dollar. And I don't remember about the other things I know we could buy feed. They called it...we called it chop. It was in a hundred pound bag they bought that to feed their cow. And hit was two dollars a bag. And I think it's about ten now. If they have the same thing.

B: Um...The other question I had for you before we finished up was when you moved to uh...this area, did you hear anything about the events that had happened here the Hatfield and McCoy feud or the Matewan Massacre?

DW: Yes.

B: What did you hear about it?

DW: Well we just heard that they had uh...had you know had...was mad at each other and was killing each other. And uh...then we heard about them a hanging these men down here just uh...not very far from Matewan. Is where they hung some of the...the Hatfield's or the McCoy's one. And I can't remember which one it was. And we heard about that and we was kindly bothered about it. And after we come here they had a some kind of a trouble down there in Mate-wan (This refers to the Matewan Massacre - May 19, 1920). And uh ...some...one of the other shot the other. Over there on the rail-road tracks and that was while we's living here. I mean living up in Red Jacket. And that was...that was terrible. We felt so bad about it. And I can remember our oldest son he was in Matewan at that time. And they all...they had movies that you could go to and he had went down there to go to a movie. But he had heard this shooting and so he left and come home. That's one thing that stands out about the Hatfield and McCoy. And well now one of our sons well two of ours sons married McCoy's. And that to us you know we talk-ed about that. That was...and they was related to the McCoy feud.

B: How about the union? Did your husband ever have any involvement with the union when he worked for Red Jacket?

DW: Well they come out on strike they was on strike for uh...oh about 50 some days. 56 days I believe. While he was working but they he didn't have to...he didn't go on the picket line. You know nothing like that they just...they was just out on the strike. And they got it settled. And didn't have any killing or nothing going on like they do now in the strikes.

B: About what year was that?

DW: Oh really I can't remember. If was probably around 56. Close to there I'd say it was close.

B: What do you think of all the stories that you hear of the political corruption in Mingo County? Did you ever know anything about vote buying and the political corruption they say exists?

DW: Well they only thing I don't nothing about it we just heard you know. Just heard that hit had been a lot of it went on. And that...I didn't say I knowed anything about it, I didn't.

B: Well before I cut off the machine is there anything that I haven't ask you today that you'd like to talk about?

DW: Well not...not really only I might add that when we come to Red Jacket we didn't have no bathrooms. We had uh...outside toilets and uh...just they uh,...we didn't have any phones. There was just a lot of things that we didn't have when we first come to Red Jac-ket. And finally then they did put in bathrooms in some places. They never did for us. We had to buy our own and put our own out-fit in. A bathroom. We did that ourselves.

B: Was that once you'd bought your house or?

DW: Yes...yes after we bought the house.

B: Where was the closest telephone if you didn't have telephone?

DW: Well uh...hit seemed like that they had them in the company store. But I can't remember how that don't remember if we tried to get any message out by telephone. Mostly we wrote letters. Just write letters back and fourth to the families that was away from here. And we got a phone several years ago. I can't remember when that was.

B: Well thank you for talking to me today.

DW: Well...

B: And I hope that if you think of anything else that you'll con-tact me.

DW: Well okay. Yeah I might just think of something.

B: Okay.

DW: Because I though [sic] of several things after you left the other day.

B: Did we talk about them today?

DW: No...yeah...yeah I changed the dates on some of them things. And then I think I told you about the broom corn. I didn't tell you that the other day. About raising the broom corn and making our own brooms.

B: And was that did you use the shucks for the sweeper part of the broom?

DW: No you had...hit was stalks. Kindly had growed up in a little tassel like you know and made a stalk. And uh...it was kindly like a straw on the...when it tasseled out. And my daddy would uh... he'd uh..have to have some hot water I remember...and he'd put these stalks down in that hot water. And he's have him a handle and a wire and he'd take them stalks and put them on his handle and wrap that wire around it them while they was real hot and then when it got cool that was fastened there tight. And we sweeped with that kind of broom. I might not have told you that in this. Well seemed like I told though...about we raised broom corn?

B: But I didn't ask you how you used it.

DW: Well...well...

B: Okay. Well Thank you....