Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Ruby Aliff Interview

Becky Bailey: This is Becky Bailey for the Matewan Development Center at ten after ten in the morning on July the 14th, 1989. I'm in the home of Ruby Aliff, is that your name?

RA: Yeah, Ruby Mounts Aliff.

B: Ruby Mounts Aliff. The first question I have for you Mrs. Aliff is when you were born and where?

RA: I was born in 1921 Blackberry City the ole home place Ben and Ethel Mounts. Daughter.

B: So....you were born right in the middle of all the trouble that was going on?

RA: Oh yes I was. And like I say I was nine days old when they started shooting from over here at McCarr and into Blackberry City that killed cows and daddy got us...got mom and I was just nine days old I was down into the old fruit cellar. And uh moms sister and uh...husband Glen and Pearl McCoy lived right below us and got them up and in there. And daddy's brother Doug Mounts and his wife and I think maybe they had three children then. And got us all in there till long about dusk, dark and got us out took us down through to Sulphur Creek and my mothers uh...mother...her father had died and my brothers had come down here and got jobs in the coal mines. And they had moved my mother down here. Her first time, she had been married before was killed in the mines in Virginia. So they moved her...my mother down here and so then they moved their mother down here and she was running a boarding house up Sulphur Creek. And got us down up to grandmas. And the men come back and got their rifles and ammunition the next morning they stayed over all that night and that next morning they was ready for them. And when they went to shooting they was a bunch of them behind a big water tower over here on Alburn Mountain. Over here on the side of Alburn Mountain. They shot into that and they knew if they shot it full of holes water would run out of it and the bullets would go through and the guys went to running and they run and got...my daddy and the men run and got onto the cemetery over here and run around onto the cliff around there to the Horse Shoe Inn. And shot at them as they went up over that mountain over there, at McCarr. And uh...so they was...there was the next day they was cows that had been shot. Everything I reckon that moved they shot at. And the mother had a...she had a big wooden chest you know good size...small chest that she had sitting up on the top of the nose...uh...dish cabinet safe. And she kept all of her important papers and deed and so on in it. And they had...one of those bullets went into that and but it didn't get air to burn it...it burnt those papers. They were black they were just...it just blacked them. But it smoothers you see and...or it would have burnt the house down. That's all that saved it. Because it couldn't get air in there to burn you know the box. And I...of course I was just like I say I'd listen to them talk all as I grew up you know. And Hallie Chambers and Cory Chambers and their daughter Henrietta...Henrietta was born in 1920 me 1921 they'd come up over home they were good friends of ours and my daddy was good friends to Ed Chambers and Sid Hatfield and all of them had all been over home. And uh...and Henrietta and I we'd sit you know and we'd listen at them a talking telling about all this. And uh... around the fire place and all and uh...and so I just grew up in it you know. But it bothered me because I knew how my daddy had struggled and worked for just near nothing. I'd see him go and be way after dark in the night before he'd get back home. And uh...and it and he'd get up and take off the next morning. I thought what a horrible life not for daddy has to live you know. And uh...then the days at the mines wasn't working. They worked and they fire 'em and they raised everything they...and my mother canned. She put up a time I remember us a counting and she'd canned eight hundred cans of vegetables and fruit we had our own orchard. This here was an orchard, this belonged to my mother and daddy. (When) Bill and I married, daddy let us have it. We bought this off of him. And my husband built me this house. Started out with one room and we kept adding on. And uh...then we lived right here beside of them. And he was awful good to my parents mother and daddy loved ...loved my husband and said he was just like a son to them. And we had five children. We had three sons and two daughters. Our two daughters are in Cincinnati and our youngest son's in Cincinnati at uh...and uh...we have one son here at home with us our oldest son and uh...we have a son on Pigeon Creek. Bob Aliff and family there...live over there at Varney. They own their home over there. And he works in the coal mines. And uh...so we was always a caring loving family and cared and my mother and father was like that. And through their neighbors and all they was times that some people didn't have even enough to eat, my mother and daddy always shared with them. I remember that when I was a girl. I guess in the '30's there you know when depression times were so rough. And uh...but we uh...we always did good and had plenty, had the hogs, and we had the chickens and we had the cows and had plenty of milk ...my mother...we'd keep two cows her and daddy when one was dry wasn't giving (milk) the other would be coming in fresh you know. So that way we always had and I can remember them my daddy they was a giving them a twenty-four pound bag of flour in Williamson. And he didn't have a car or anything and he...him and uncle Glen and uncle Doug they'd walk. They went through the tunnel at Williamson to get that twenty-four pound bag of flour. And then they'd get a ride maybe back maybe they'd be somebody have a truck and he'd let them load onto the back of that truck and hold that to Matewan. Maybe he'd be going on through Pigeon Creek or Red Jacket. And uh...and I can remember them a talking about that you know there during the '30's when times were bad. And uh...so we just...just a hard working family and pulled together and did together to help each other. And uh...so when daddy (they) were working the union they knowed that was they could hold their job and uh...and have some benefits you know. They was it was they had nothing. And so that's the reason they were strong for the union and all.

B: Did your father ever tell you about the struggle for the union? Did he ever talk about Sid Hatfield and Ed Chambers?

RA: Yeah. Yes. Like I said I was...I grew up listening to them talk like I said Hallie Chambers and them from Matewan would come up. And they'd sit and talk and uh...daddy and Uncle Doug see when they...said that the Baldwin Felts men...they'd come in and brought men with them and that was Stony Mountain camp above Matewan there. Uh...they'd come down the train they was up there a moving the miners out of the coal camps you know. Moving them onto the... they'd set their stoves out onto that railroad. Uh...kettle of beans a cooking right on it still a cooking and they moved them all out and so the ones that was for the union you know they got their guns and all and thy gathered down there at Matewan waiting for them to come back down and catch the train that evening after they'd been up there doing all that. And uh...Sid Hatfield, Ed Chambers was all there at the old Chambers Hardware Store. And my daddy I remember him telling about Uncle Doug had came up on top of the wooden keg of meal. See stand where he could look out over them you know and daddy was watching he seen one of them give a signal, so he got a hold of uncle Doug's paint leg and jerked him to get down, and they got round next to the door when the shooting started. And of course they all went to running, and they...a... shooting you know and all uh...they run out down a old lady Hoskins she was principal one time at the grade school in Matewan. She lived where that Baptists Church is now across from the bank, and she had a coal house out back of her house. And it had you know an opening up here high where they could pitch them coal in the side door. And uh...she'd had a big load of chopped kindlin' (wood) in there. And they'd...there was one guy that run out that way. They went looking and they never could find him. They looked in there but they'd go and they never could find him. And it got dark he got out of there and waded across Tug River. Went up the Kentucky side and up through up Peter Fork up and over and down at next to uh...Freeburn you know there at Delorme and hid out and caught the train that next evening (back) to Welch. And years after that then his name was Bob Buckhannan, and years after that he come back down here join the union he got in a job working at Red Jacket with my daddy never told a soul you know. And him and his wife and a kid or two would come up over hall they really like....(phone rings and tape cuts off) Uh...so uh...he liked daddy and he trusted in my daddy and mother, he got to telling that that was him that hid in that coal house. They was a talking about that Massacre you know there at Matewan. And uh...daddy said....uh he told daddy how he did got to crawl back under the kindlin' (wood) and hid with his riffle and then waded Tug River and got away. He said "that they ain't no amount of money,"...Bob Buchanan said this..."that could hire him to do a thing like that again" he never dreamed that it would erupt into that you know. They'd hired him to come down here, the Baldwin Felts brothers to come down here and move those people out of the tent houses and said uh...he said "that no amount of money could ever get him to do a thing like that again." And uh...and so my daddy never would tell any of their feller workers you know that Bob was one...that Bob Buchanan was one...was the one that got away. And so they were real good friends. And he's buried right over here on this cemetery where my daddy and my mother buried here at Blackberry City and all. And uh...like I say I grew up with that you know listening to them talk and I was always fascinated by at night I used to think when when I was a girl there I loved to write a book and put all of that tin it you know. But I was just you know never and I thought of how wonderful that'd be to have a book to pass on to my grandchildren and great grandchildren you know. And uh...now they're righting the books you know "Thunder in the Mountains" and I've had I think I've had two different that's brought to me they knowed you know and they brought me...I've got them in there in my book case. And one of them my first cousin Harold Phillips his son brought me one. He come to see me he's been in service a long time. They use to live here beside of us. And that was my daddies sisters son his dad. And my daddies...my Aunt Vic, daddy's sister. And like I say we's just kindly family you know around here and all. And uh...it uh... that's the reason I said that now they're having their problems you know I said this younger generation don't know what a struggle the old miners had forming the union and getting the union you know. And how much it meant to them you know. And in later on years when they come up missing they'll see where they missed the boat. They will.

B: What other stories uh...did your father tell you about what was going on at this time? I know before we started the tape you told us a story about your mother doing laundry while the shooting was goin' back and forth between here and McCarr.

RA: Well that was like I said he got us all down into the fruit cellar you know and my mother uh...I was just nine days old and she'd hang a lot of my diapers out on the front porch there's a line, she had a line on the porch there. Like when it would rain she would hang there, and uh...so they...she knew that we was gonna get us up to Sulphur Creek as soon as it got a little later dark. And so she...when they let up shooting she run up back up into the house and there was a big chimney int he middle of the ole home place over there. She got behind that chimney that protected her. And when they'd stop shooting she knew that they were reloading and she'd run out on to the front porch and snatch off some of those diapers and so she'd run back in behind chimney till she got my clothes. For a baby you know how they have to be changed and all. He'll get it (phone rings) and uh...so uh...I'd heard them talk about it you know. And I just though my mother and daddy were brave. They had to be you know and uh...and I just uh...I guess me being the oldest one and hearing them talk about it and all that went on right when I was born there in 1921, 1920 I guess was when the Massacre was it. Yeah that happened there in Matewan in 1921, when I was born why I could hear them a talking about it you know. And Henrietta Chambers, that was Hallie and Cory's daughter she and I...like I said she was born in 1920 and me 1921 we were real good friends, that's Robert McCoy's mother Henrietta is. And uh...and I just thought a lot of her. And me and her would sit and discuss when hearing them talk how rough that was you know. And uh...so and it's kindly like I grew up listening to the Hatfield and McCoy feud and things you know and that was the same way with the struggle and the companies you know. Coal companies. My husband's worked int he mines he worked as a coal miner to till he retired you know. He's had five heart attacks, but he's still here, he's real strong will to people, mountain people are. And my mother...my mother was uh...from Virginia she was born and raised in Virginia and my daddy his uh...he was raised on oh Peter Creek and over on John's Creek. And when they were just babies...just children, their oldest sister...his older sister Ann, lets see they had an Ann and Victoria, had two sisters and three brothers and there mother just uh...their youngest brother Bob was born she took the flu and pneumonia and she died. And their daddy taught school, old man Jake Mounts. He taught...he was a school teacher. And those children had to take care of that little baby sister older I guess probably ten or twelve and Ann and my daddy would...I could remember hearing tell about they would take them a carbide lamp and go out to the barn at night and milk them out a glass of milk for that baby when it would get hungry and go to crying. And that warm milk and feed it to...with a spoon. And they raised...they got that baby up if your knowed...that was amazing those little children you know those little children doing that. And uh...he had to go my grandfather my daddy's father he had to travel a lot there was so many people that couldn't read and write back then you know. And he would go with them to Pikeville helping them uh...like getting deed to their property and getting things like that that form and uh...and he'd have to be gone a long time for they had to go by horse back. They'd ride a horse all the way to Pikeville you know from over Johns Creek or...I think they lived at up on Peter Creek then. And uh...so then uh...my my father I had a my grandfather I had (it) here somewhere he wrote a story. I should have hunted that up here for you. He uh...they owned a whole lot of property up there, and he sold that out and uh...that was before they mother died. And he took them and went West, they you know back then it was timber you know if they was big timbers and they was the trees in the West were bigger that they'd...they'd get rich out there he'd took his family and went...went West. And uh ...and they didn't they just didn't make it you know they were just getting right up against it so my daddy's mothers people sent them money to come back on you know ont he train. My daddy was just a little boy. I can hear him talking about he and uncle Doug was fascinated about riding that train. And a crawling through the isles of it you know. And down on their hands and knees a crawling. And uh...and uh...so my grandfather when he got the letter with the money in it from my grandmothers people Williams's, she was a Williams. Why he decided well he could take that money and go and gamble and double it he'd have money for them to come back on and money to start on after they got back, but he lost the money and town people they felt so sorry for her and the children they made up money...the town people out there and for their fair back...back home you know and uh...but they wouldn't let him...but they wouldn't give him a ticket. He had to work his way back and he did. He worked and he hitch hiked, I mean hoboes his way back. And he wrote this uh...poem about his struggle a getting back. And I've got it somewheres and it is something. Now daddy always kept it. And uh...

B: About what time was this? What year was this?

RA: Well that was when my daddy was he was just a little boy and lets see if my daddy was still living now he was born lets see daddy was born uh...1888 I believe. And well on 18...1894 was when she was born. And uh...so that was when he was just a little boy there. He was just...they were just small for the were talking abut how people got a kick out of them when uncle Doug crawled their own...they would give them...give them maybe uh...piece of striped candy...stick of peppermint candy or something to you know because they were...they didn't know what to do with theirself they'd sit in that...and seats so long on that train they had to do something and that's the way they'd get them some exercise crawling through the train. And I'd heard my daddy talk about that and so they had it rough. Then when they got back she had their last brother Bob why that's when he wasn't but maybe a month old or something. She took flu and pneumonia and died so they took care of him. So it uh...all that all fascinated me. I would listen I would love and my daddy could sing. This is something I'd like to say. He had a voice and honey he could sing. And he knew music and everybody he loved to go to church. He was the leader of the choir he'd get up there with that book, I've got some of his old song books that he could sing. And one time...he loved to sit on the front porch over on the ole home place and he'd sing. He had a voice that you could hear him practically to Williamson and uh... ole man Brown let see what was his name that had the B & C Oil Company there in Matewan he lived...they lived up here to where Mrs. Taylor lived down here by the railroad track. My youngest brother Franklin he was a little boy about maybe ten or twelve and uh...he was a going to Matewan to deliver papers. And he met Mr. Brown down here at the high way a coming walking. And he says uh...he could hear my daddy singing and it sounded down this holler here you know towards the railroad he says, I never heard such beautiful voice I wonder who that is singing. Franklin says "that's my daddy sitting up there on the porch". Mr. Brown says "why your just a kidding." He say "no I'm not that's my daddy singing." And Mr. Brown was just fascinated at daddys singing and now my youngest brother he uh...he belongs to the Methodists church and he was preaching up here at Freeburn. He come by one day I was sitting out here on the bench a stringing me some green beans he said he had something he wanted me to listen to. And he recorded his uh... sermon and him and them a singing and uh...they out of all of us they was none of us had that voice like our daddy so I listened to it all I didn't say a word. When he finished I said "little brother if you had that back when our own pappy was a sitting on that front porch singing and recording that you'd a had a treasure." (He said that is the truth.) (So you can see how we grew up, my mother was real religious, and my daddy he joined church later on when he was about 40 I'd say or about 40 some. And I was just a girl about 14, 15 years old,(and) I delivered papers and I knew everybody...everybody knew me and uh...on a payday my daddy went to Red Jacket he come... he'd catch him a ride out of Red Jacket holler he'd have his pay day. I'd always be down there a waiting on for him. He'd take five dollars out of that pay day and he'd hand the rest to me and says "take that to your mommy that's for groceries and all." And so I'd bring it home. That'd be of in the morning like you know. Well that evening when he hadn't come home I'd say "well" I'd go up my brothers I'd say "I'll let you go hunt daddy" on account of the railroads, see from Matewan to Blackberry City he walked up that railroad he was afraid of that railroad for I knew he be a drinking. And uh...they wouldn't go. And I'd go and Hallie or uh... Mont Howell and Ernest Ward they knew me and they'd see me coming and the guys that daddy had worked with had nicknamed him wild dog and they say "you looking for wild dog?" They knew I wouldn't go in a...in the beer places or anything you know. I said "yeah". So they'd uh...they said "we'll go get him for you." So here he'd they come with him between them I'd put one of his arms around my neck and my arm around his waist and here I'd bring him up that railroad. Him bagging me to let him sit down. I said, I knew if he set down I'd never be able to get him back up. I'd say "nope you can't sit down till we get home." And I'd bring him home like that. And uh...take him he'd fall across the bed and then he'd swear I'm never gonna do that again but the next pay day it was again. So he did that until, like I say he...my mother was real religious she'd join church I think she said when she was about sixteen years old. And uh...my daddy I think he was about forty maybe a little over forty there when he joined. The Baptists Church over here at Blackberry City, he was a member of the church. Then the Church was when I was a girl was up here at Almy and we'd walk up there to church. They didn't' have this one over here at Blackberry City. And uh...so that was another episode in our life.

B: Would you tell me some more about your grandmother that ran the boarding house?

RA: Well uh...that was my mothers mother. Her...she was Laurie Bandy. My mother was a Bandy. And she was a Beavers when she married the Bandy. And uh...my mothers father and he died, when they were...they'd all she got them all raised and he died with his lungs. I guess from working int he coal mines you know killed him. And uh...and my mothers brother, my mother lived in Virginia they lived in Virginia and she married a Harm Lambert. Her first husband and she had the four children by him. She had two sons and two daughters. There is one...I have a half sister still living. And uh...and so my mothers first husband was killed in the mines, her brothers had come down here and got jobs in the mines. Was working down in here so they brought here down here and she bought the home place she had enough money left after they buried him to buy the home place over there. And it seemed to me like I forgotten now just how it was. It wasn't too much that she had to pay for it back then you know. And uh...and so then grandmother uh...when their daddy, my mothers father passed away and like I said with the lung problem why my brothers, or her brothers moved uh...grandma down here to Sulphur Creek and she run that boarding house and they ...they stayed at the boarding house with her. And there was other men that rented you know that worked up there. And uh...they had a big dining room and all and uh...she had help and they cooked and fed the miners and they boarded there you roomed there. And uh...so uh...and uh...her name was Laurie my mother was a Bandy. My mother was a Bandy. That was Laurie Bandy and she... my mother had one sister. Pearl and she had a brother Rob Bandy and brother Dee Bandy and Charlie Bandy. Charlie died when he was young he'd uh...they had been to town and he'd laid down in the back seat of the car and the fumes from the car killed him and when the two brothers got up to go to grandmas up Sulphur Creek there well they thought he was asleep but he was dead. And he...Charlie he was young, he was married and had...had two children. He had a daughter and a son. Glendine and Johnny was their name Bandy. And uh...so that was kind of a tragedy there with uncle Charlie and uh...my daddy then he had uh...like I said he had the two sisters and three brothers.

B: Did you ever stay with your mother down at the boarding house?

RA: Well I can remember after I got a little older I can remember going up there like I said they took me when I was nine days old to get away from the shooting here in Blackberry City but uh...I go up there and I was just...I can't remember and she had a big plum tree in the yard. She gave me (a bucket to gather up some of those plums)

RA: A bucket full of plums and uh...I dropped and spilt some of them. And daddy of them was sitting ont he front porch and my daddy was a big tease he always teased me. He was a laughing at me so I...cause I was a having to pick them back up. I got them picked back up I walked up to where he was at and I just threw the whole bucket of plums right on his lap and on and said "now you pick them up". I was just a little ole kid as I can remember that and uh...my daddy was now they were strict on us but my daddy he never...I never got a whipping from him.

B: Really?

RA: No he uh...he'd uh...sometimes he'd go to correcting the boys and I'd run in and I'd take his belt away from him and say "leave them alone". And uh...then uh...after I was married and lived here my son Charles my brother Charles I mean, sorry about that son, I mean my brother Charles. My daddy he'd went off down to the river instead of doing his chores and my daddy whipped on him. So here he'd come....got away and run over here to me he run up to my door (and) he says "Ruby" says "daddy's whipped me don't let him whip me any more". He'd remember when he was little you know or back he wasn't ...he's was still just a boy then and so here come daddy and uh...I said you sit down there Charles at my table. My kitchen table I said "you sit down there at the table", my kitchen table I said "you sit down there at the table"...I said "he won't bother you". So daddy come up and he come to the door and he come in after him. I said "you've whipped on him enough now that's that. You hit it back to the house." I said "this is my house" and I said "he's in my house now." So he turned and he went and the old lady Phillips that's Hiram Phillips mother and Aileen Phillips that's in Matewan Hiram Phillips, his mother lived there beside of me right here beside of me. And she said "one thing about it" says "he don't he backs off when you stand up to him." That always amazed that old lady because I said "yeah he knows I've got enough of him in me that he don't want to fight.

B: Right.

RA: And so I always took up for them, and all you know and me being the oldest one why and uh...I just uh...and they had...then uh...my brothers delivered....no I deliver papers. And my brothers ...then ole man Bill Hamilton had a little grocery store down here at Blackberry City by the side of the road and my mother'd send the kids the boys down there to the store. And they was a (an) old man I can't think of his name now. He lived down there and he had a dog he kept it on a chain in his yard you kept it on a chain cause he had his yard fenced and my brother would stop at that fence they'd pet that little dog...that dog...and that dog it just loved those boys and when they'd come on back it would break (and) get lose jump the fence follow them boys over home. The ole guy would come up there and get his dog he did that three....abut three trips he come one day and the dog would see him a coming when he come around the house they'd be out back there at the back porch the dog would go to growling and he says "I can't believe that that dog will growl at me I says I raised it from a puppy". It loved those boys so you know children and it run under the house and so the said "well go under there and get my dog for me"...he'd tell the boys you know and the boys...my brothers they'd crawl back under the house I got down to look they says "we can't reach him" they'd just sitting back there a grinning and the dog had backed from them a little so I had three dollars in Alburn script from where I delivered papers over in McCarr and people paid me in Alburn script. I used that in the Alburn Company store, I paid them... the paper man cash you know that I collected. The paper man. And my share I'd take it int he script and I'd use it in the company store buying some over-hauls or whatever you know for the boys and things and use it. So I told him "I've got three dollars in Alburn script"...I said "if you'll let these boys have that dog I'll give it to you". I said "that's all I've got." He says "ok I'll take it", says "they got my dog anyhow". So he was old Sheep and I knew he grew up with those boys he lived to be real old. And they all is as fascinated over old Sheep you know leaving his master for them boys.

B: Did your father ever tell you anything about the trial? What did you hear about the....

RA: Well yeah I remember about the trial in going and all and uh...like I say now I'm getting a little foggy minded myself but uh...I can remember them a going and uh...and they was uh...you see uh...Ed Chambers, Sally Starr, that's Rufus Starr's sister that lives over here across from me, Rufus, see she was married to Ed Chambers. And see Ed was killed...they killed Ed Chambers and Sid Hatfield on the court house steps when they were...they summonsed them up there, they did that to get them up there you see to kill them. Over the Massacre down here at Matewan and uh...and Sally had went with them and uh...when they started up the court house steps they went to shooting at them and Ed fell and Sid too and they run down you know still shooting. And Sally had an umbrella and she was a beating them with her umbrella that they had shot them enough you know. And uh...I remember that and uh...them a having the trial it was Lawyer Houston I believe from Charleston that came and was there in Williamson when they was having the trial that daddy and them was on you know. And uh...I remember talking about that and uh...daddy you know come clear in all that you know. And uh...I remember that about it and uh...but like I say there was a whole lot of it that I kindly forget you know. But uh...I can remember then Sally Starr Chambers she went to Charleston and got a job working in the Lawyers office over there after it was all over you know. And then she married Lawyer Houston and uh...they had one daughter, Connie I think was her name I remember that. They that was their mother...her mother and father did live over here where Rufus lives now and uh...they were around my mother and fathers age, their parents. And uh...so uh...I remember that in all.

B: What do you remember hearing about Sid and Ed and the other men that your father was involved with in the shooting what did you hear about those men.

RA: Well see Sid Hatfield he'd been a miner himself you see and he was for the mines you know and when they come down and they didn't like it because they'd done the miners families like that up there you know the children and the women and the children just sit them out of the, put them out of the houses you see and threw their clothes out. And moved their furniture out and whatever and uh...that's the reason and when they come back to Matewan that evening to catch the train and back to Welch they... they'd gathered there you know the miners and uh...when uh...one of them I think pulled the pistol see there were ready and that's when the shooting started and uh...and that I remember them talking about that and like I say of course it's in these books that they've got written now you know. Like I say Thunder in the Mountains and all and uh...but uh...I remember my daddy telling about it there. And so they just...they killed see how many was it that they killed of the Baldwin Felts uh...maybe two of the brothers wasn't it the Baldwin Felts brothers and then some of the men they had hired to come with them. When the train pulled up they threw them on the train the ones they'd shot you know and sent them back to Welch dead. And that was the reason then they summonsed Ed Chambers and Sid Hatfield to Welch. Uh...on account of that and uh...it's like the Matewan movie my son Bob and his family they come and got me they wanted me to see that they took me to the mall it was over there the movie Matewan. And for me to see that and I said well I really enjoyed it it was a lot like it but a little different you know and uh...I'd love for my daddy to seen that movie. I said he would have really enjoyed that and uh...I thought of the lady that was a singing in it. Thought of my daddy the way he'd sing you know in all and uh...so that's about, like I say they got their union and they got better wages and better benefits in all you know and just like my husband he he's had you know better hospitalization and everything because of the union. And uh...so I feel like that uh...they's younger men that going against the union working for the companies and going against the union and uh...they ought to stop that what the ole timers had to go through a getting to where they're at today and their benefits and everything.

B: Did your father ever mention a C. E. Lively? Did he ever talk about the fella Lively that um...was apparently he was a undercover type agent for the Baldwin Felts? Did your father ever talked about him?

RA: Seeming like I remember that to. Yeah. I do. I remember them telling a talking about that. Him a coming down here and uh...posing as their friend I mean you know and he just I...I don't remember exactly but I do remember about him. And uh...so uh...but I don't remember like I say I don't remember as good as I use to I said I'd love to back when I was younger myself now I said I can see where my mother and father it hit them they began to get forgetful you know and uh...and forgetting things and I said I know now what it was it was old age hits you. And uh...I don't' remember some things as clear as I use to do. But uh...but I remember seem like I remember that about him. I don't' remember exactly either.

B: How about Reece Chambers? What do you remember about Reece Chambers?

RA: Yeah I remember...yeah Reece Chambers he used to come over home too you know. And uh...they was all good friends and all. And uh...like I say some of it's beginning to get foggy to me now. I don't remember it as clear as I use to and uh...but Reece and uh...Ed and uh...Hallie they were all...all brothers I guess I guess there I think they were all brothers. And they'd all come up over home there at the ole home place. Talked with my daddy and his brother Doug and uh...then these other miners would gather there too. And talk but that was like I say I was just young you now and I didn't, and that the reason I say I'm glad now that they're writing books about it because it...I think it needs to be preserved and kept for this younger generation.

B: Um...did your father ever talk anything about who killed mayor Testerman or Mayor Testerman at all? Did he ever talk abut mayor Testerman?

RA: Testerman...Testerman was his name I believe yeah I remember daddy talking about but now that was...was that in the Massacre down there? Uh...I remember him and uncle Doug a running and uh... he was with Ed Chambers daddy was running along with Ed Chambers. And when they got their to the corner I think of where...the bank was there then it's across from the bank now but there, when they got there at that corner there was one of...one of them Baldwin Felts men was he's a sitting there humped down. He'd been shot and he looked up at Ed Chambers and he says I'm already shot don't shoot me anymore but Ed Chambers shot him killed him. My daddy was right with him and then they run on across there like I say on down through there and then some had run that way. And that was where Bob Buckhanna had hid in that ole lady Hoskin's coal house and that's how they missed him, he was in there. They were out to do them all in because they were so mad at them because of the way they'd done the miners families up there at Stony Mountain camp. Uh...up Matewan there. And uh...that's on up there where that, there's some of the houses still there you know before you get to Montgomery Super Market you know where we're talking about there on your right going up there across the railroad tracks there. And uh...so that's...that's about as well as I can remember of it...about it.

B: So you never heard your daddy say if...who killed Testerman? You never heard him say anything about anything specific or...

RA: No I knew...I don't. I know they were shot there and all and that's what I say I (was)just uh...just a girl growing up a listening to them talk was only way...all I knew about it you know. Like I said and uh...but they'd talk about it daddy and all of them, men his friends.

B: Once they...did they ever say about what...once they got the bodies on the train did they ever say anything? What happened after that down in the town? You know once they got rid of the agents bodies?

RA: Well I remember them setting up tents for the families and fixing places for them seemed like I remember them talking about that, And uh...and uh...how rough it was on women and children you know. and uh...I remember that. And talking about it but like I say that's about as good as I can remember about it. Like I say it's just what I remembered them talking hearing them talk it was what I knew but uh...but I said I just wish my ole daddy was around till he could really tell you for he'd...he was real sharp. He didn't even forget anything. And uh...I feel just like that with Bob Buchanan you know he liked Bob Buchanan. They acted like in that movie of Matewan you know they've got that one went across the river went out into the Tug River and got away. That's where they got that from you see making that movie I remember that. See that's the reason my son knew he'd heard me talk when I's...he's just a little boy and he said "I want mom to see that movie". And then his dad wasn't feeling good and he didn't go see the movie. So Bob rented uh...what do you call it?

B: Video.

RA: Video and played it for him at his house and showed him. And the youngest son came from Cincinnati he watched it with his daddy and they watched it together on the thing. But uh...it was good. B: Um...when we...before we were on tape...before we were on tape actually you were telling us a story about when they were shooting back and forth between here and McCarr about going down and passing a well so what was that story? Would you mind repeating it so we could have it on tape?

RA: Well that was one of the...that was one of the miners they lived...there was a row of houses down by the railroad track there at the mouth of Sulphur Creek down here going towards Matewan you know that was uh...camp houses along there. Ad uh...they didn't have water in the houses and they come out there at that open well at uh...Simpkins's and uh...got water. And uh...they were taken uh...taken the children and the women up Sulphur Creek that...when they...when it got later that evening at dusk, dark got us down there. When they got down to that well there laid this man. And he'd been shot from over there at McCarr shooting through said they'd seen him there at that well. And they'd shot and killed him there. And I used to know what his name was. See now I don't remember...I can't remember what his name was. But uh...I remember them talking about that you know.

B: Did anybody ever know who it was that was shooting from over at McCarr?

RA: Well I reckon it was uh...that they had them hired to come in here you know to try to break the union miners you know. To break up...so they couldn't get their union. And I reckon that was what that was all about. Shooting to...shooting into Blackberry City and like I said the ole home place had holes where they shot into the house you know and uh...and I can remember an...like I say I just a tiny baby nine days old when I can remember them talking about it you know and daddy and them getting the rifles and ammunition and ready for them the next morning they come...after they got us up there that evening that bar and they was ready for them so when they started shooting the next morning they would shooting back at us. And they run on over to that cemetery when they got the water out of that...the big old water tank stood over there. And them guys had to pull over there and run while they...if they'd got over onto the cemetery they went to shooting at them and then on around onto them cliffs there at the Horse Shoe Inn. And I guess they got back maybe they'd been sent down here I guess they got back up Peter Fork and out up there at uh...Delorme and caught their train back to I guess they were sent down here from up there at Welch's is what I here. It was over that but uh...but that was uh...like I say I was nine days old.

B: In the...in the movie you know they showed Italians and blacks being brought in to break the union.

RA: Yeah to take the miners place, I remember my daddy talking about that. I can remember my daddy talking about them bringing them in and taking their jobs giving their jobs to them you know. And then I remember later on then my daddy a working with them and they called them...they'd call them wops you know. And I was just a little girl I wasn't but about, oh I might have been about five or six years old. Like I said my Uncle Glen and Aunt Pearl lived right below us and daddy was, my mother was on the back porch worshing on a worsh board you know and I was a standing there where she was a worshing and putting things over into the rinsing tub and uh..and my daddy was a ordering the boys having my brothers a working out through there and he was out there just a giving... giving them heck you know ordering them around. And I got tired of hearing them so I stomped out there to him and I'd heard him talk about those dam wops they don't know nothing you know. But I didn't know ...I thought he was saying mops and so I walked out there and I said "you damned old mop let them alone their working as hard as they can work". And so my uncle Glen went to laughing and my daddy sit down and just shook his head. Glen hollered and said "well you've got one there that will stand in with you." So I went back onto the porch where my mother was and she was just cracking up laughing and my brothers were laughing you know at my...that was my half brothers you see that was older than me, Herbert and Junior. And uh...and uh...they was a giggling saying mop. I says "well that's what they...what he called them guys he worked with" and they said...mommy said "no it wasn't mop it was wops". And so I remember them playing to me you know but they was foreigners and they I guess them guys where we call them wops...

B: Did they ever explain why they called them wop?

RA: My husband now he knows he's uh....I've heard him say but he can tell you that. I remember him uh...me a telling that to my son Bob and uh...and his daddy explained why they called them wops there. But he can tell you that. And uh...

B: Did you ever hear your father talking union talk? I mean did they ever let the families (hear them) talking union? What would they say?

RA: Oh yeah they'd have...they'd have their meeting in all. And they'd...I can remember when they like I said when I was a girl talking about the union and uh...getting the mine workers and getting them lined out and things. But I don't' like I say I don't ...now my husband can remember all that better than I can really. That part you know. But like I said I guess I didn't pay as much attention being a girl but I listened to enough you now I heard enough of it all the talk all the time.

B: Were their songs...did your father sing union songs? Or what kind of songs did he sing?

RA: Well he could, that and he could sing the christian songs, religious songs you know. Song books I've got some of his ole songs books in here. And uh...one song that always fast...me hearing him sing uh...lets see what was it? "That Saved a Wretch Like Me" is some of the words in it and my youngest daughter she would get so she worship my daddy and mother you know that was their grandparents. Why all of my children they just worshiped mom and dad. They was right here you see. And she would get so tickled at him and snigger at him singing "A Wretch Like Me" you know "That Saved a Wretch Like Me". And "Precious Jesus" I don't remember just how the song goes I've got...I've got them and like I say I have...and my mother she loved to sing too. But she didn't have the voice that daddy's had singed. She liked to sing christian songs too. And they both belonged to this church then. Back when I was a kid it was up the alley like I say but...

B: How much schooling did you father have? When you say his father was...

RA: Well...

B: A school teacher?

RA: See their daddy taught them. He taught him and uh...they did good uh...but he had...he taught them you know. And I'd say they had like seventh and eight grade education probably summers (somewheres) along there you know but they was like I say back then people couldn't even read and write you know but my daddy could and my mother to. My mother had...she had I'd say seventh or eighth grade education. My mother was real smart she was a real smart person. And daddy too so they done...they just didn't have opportunities to go on you know get more education like they do today. But uh...but they uh...I can remember they just smart there. I went to school...I went to the ninth grade and it's all of us and I said "well I'm gonna quit I'm not going any more" It will be that much more for the other kids to buy them school clothes. But I regretted later me doing that. I wish I went ahead and finished high school. And uh...but uh...I did that and there in the '30's, times were so hard I can remember a going to Matewan and seeing men passing with uh...they'd take card board paper and put it on the bottom of their shoes where their soles wore out and this here mining tape and tape that card board on their soles of their shoes. And it was...it was really a rough time. That's the reason I said I don't' know what it's all coming to know this younger generation has had so much and all, they never say anything like that. And I said "if it ever got that bad again I don't know how they would survive you know for back then people raised and have now...the lands all took up their housing for people to live you know we don't...you don't' have the land now to farm like they did through here. Just like Hatfield Bottom that was one big farm down through there you know. Back way back their and you now and so I said this younger generation is they've never seen no hard times. Had plenty got to go to school in al you now like I said I stayed at home and helped my mother. Delivered papers and on Sunday we'd uh..us girls some of my friends here we'd walk to Matewan to the Methodists Church and go to Sunday School. And uh...that was when I was about fourteen and they knew I always had a little money from delivering those papers you know. And the drug store was there in Matewan then you know we'd go over to the drug store it was open on Sunday and we'd buy us a comb of ice cream something like that you know and these girls they would starting to smoke cigarettes they'd want me to buy them a pack of cigarettes. I said "there's no way that I'll spend my hard earned on just to blow smoke out you know back then I didn't know that they even a danger to your health or anything and those girls would get so nice. "I'll buy you a candy bar or an ice cream something like that or soft drink" you could get anything for a nickel back then...a dime you know. And uh...they would get so mad at me because I...and I never did smoke I never did drink. And uh...they raised nine of us to be grown over there. They all smoked and they'd all had their have them a drink you know and my daddy and Uncle Doug and them they mad them some home brew in the cellar in churns you know. I'd take me a spoon and taste it and said "how in the world do they stand that stuff that's something I'll never drink". And my mother and daddy they like to drink a cup of coffee of the mornings they'd have their coffee. And I'd seen them I was just a little girl and I'd see them a drinking that coffee like it was that the best stuff ever was you know. So I poured me a cup sneaked and poured me a...

RA: And drinking that coffee every morning I thought well that's got to be awfully good. And so I sneaked and poured me a cup of coffee took a (taste of it) and said "Lord" and my daddy used some sugar in his...put me some sugar it in and stirred it. And tasted and said "Lord" and I put a little milk in it like my mother did and stirred it...my daddy was watching me but my mother didn't see me doing that. So I took a cup of coffee out and I poured it off the porch just poured it out. And when I come back my daddy says "that hair brain Ruby went out there and poured out that cup of, poured out a cup of coffee Ethel". And I said "how do you all drink that awful stuff". And so I never did drink coffee and to this day I don't drink coffee. My husband has his coffee he like he's coffee I never did drink coffee, I was a funny person. Anything I didn't like I didn't drink, 'cause I had a mind of my own. So like I said I never did smoke I never did drink and I never did drink coffee. Then later years my half sister from Tennessee they had a big grape vineyard and they...they made wine you know so she come up with a new wine that they had made (a) Bottle of it you know and she brought...they's all sitting around my dining room table. My brothers and all of them you know and uh...so she was a pouring all of a little glass of this wine to try. I was standing here at the sink a worshing (washing) dishes so she come over and she'd poured me a glass and said "here's your Ruby". I says "ok thank you", but I had tasted of it before and I said that's something else I'll never drink. So when she turned her back to go back I took the glass of wine I poured it down the sink and set my glass there went a head worshing (washing) dishes. My brother Charles was sitting at that end of the table, he saw me...he saw me do thats so here she's going around giving people, pouring them seconds you know my brothers and my husband and all of them and so she..."here Ruby", I said "no...not ...no more honey that was really good but thank you but I don't care for any more". So my brother Charles then she...Thelma went out going back over home and was going back over home to moms and daddy's uh...my brother Charles come over and said "why did you pour that glass? I saw you pour that glass of wine down that sink, why didn't you save that for me?" I says "I dare you to tell her" he says " I won't tell it" but uh...I always remembered that... that was way back when my kids were little you know all small. And they'd all come in for a visit well one of my brothers had been in service and...my brother that was next to me Clinton I thought an awful lot of him he's a fine person. And he was killed in Ebajima (Iwo Jima). And uh...but I can remember my daddy I was standing out here he went to Matewan. He walked to Matewan and they had give him the telegram where Clinton had been killed. And daddy motioned us says "come on". I knew something was wrong from the way he did that you know I went over and he had that telegram and he handed to me, and then to mommy. And I can remember that that was an awfully sad hard thing for us to bare. Give him up and uh ...but that was the way we were raised in all. Like I say my mother she used to say that I took after her because I didn't like...I wouldn't drink whiskey or anything. And my mother never did smoke or drink anything, but and my daddy didn't smoke he chewed tobacco. But all my brothers smoked you know and my sister, and my half sister Thelma she was in a car wreck a few years back and she smoked until she was in the intensive care. She had broken up here legs so that's when she quit smoking. She said when she'd come out of there she couldn't smoke while she was intensive care. She never did smoke again. But uh...

B: What kind of home brew did your father make? How did he make it do you know?

RA: Well I...they'd take that they'd...corn they raised they'd grind that corn some way other and fix it in churns in the basement and let it work and raise and they'd sit down there with them a cup and they'd probably pour glasses of it. And then I remember one time my husband they'd uh...seem like they'd give the miners a lot of rice and uh...so I was a looking through my cook book and here was a recipe for rice wine. So I told the old man I said "well here the recipe for rice wine" I said "Daddy was around I could fix him some rice wine". And so he says "lets see that" so I had an ole timy churn you know like you churn your butter, butter milk. So he...he fixed that my husband did and he had a good friend of his Wes Ward, he's dead now he used to live over here he'd come over and sit and talk and things and so why they'd sit and talk and they's was thinking that rice wine and so uh...I'd been on to bed and the children were in the bed. They was all just real little then. And so he...he took Wes home in his pick up truck. Sit and parked out front here. He drove him and it's just right over on... across the highway up...down...back Charlie Elliott's store there is where they lived. He had to take him home he couldn't walk so he come back and he was a getting in his bed and he was a laughing he said that Wes got so high off of that wine I had to take him home he couldn't walk. And so he got in the bed and uh...then I heard him a roaming around I said "what's a matter". He said everything thing in this room is a turning". I said well it ain't only Wes that can't walk you can't either". So he told me the next morning he said " it must uh..." I says well you was a lot bigger man than Wes". Wes is a smaller guy I said "that's the reason it was a little longer hitting you". And so the next morning I said "we don't' need no more of that rice wine do we". So I got rid of it.

B: Did you...what saloons did your father go to down in town? Where did he drink when he'd go to town drinking?

RA: Well they use to be out back there of uh...where the Baptist church is now. Lets see what was her name? Oh Aunt Carey's they called it she had a big old two story house there. And she rented uh..rooms out and uh...they'd go in eat and they'd drink and they'd gamble. They gambled there you know. And uh...so uh...I'd go to her gate and she knew I wouldn't come in a lot of the guys drinking. She'd say your after wild dog...so she'd go in and get him. If uh...like I said if Ernest Ward and Mont Howell wasn't handy there. They was always my rescuers they'd go get daddy for me and uh...so that was one place and then see to me like there was uh...ah...maybe there was another place there in Matewan. I don't remember now what the name of it was there that they went in and drank beer and so on I guess. And they 'd go in there and get daddy for me. Ernest and Mont.

B: How did your father get the name wild dog?

RA: They guys...the guys that worked with him at the mines he... daddy had a...I had a temper and then he was so tough and they's all kindly got a kick out of it. And they nicknamed him wild dog. And uh...that was the miners he worked with that give him that name. And my son Bob now he calls when he comes to see me and all he is a big joker and he's a big tease like my daddy a lot like me. He'll call me Ben...Ok Ben and I call him wild dog...that's his nick name now. So I told him I told his daughters, he has two daughters Jennifer's fifteen and Amanda ten and Amanda she's a big tease she's just like her daddy and uh...I said uh..."when his birthday rolls around uh...my birthday was in April his birthday is in August my birthday there in April they was ordering me a birthday cake his wife was. And so she says "what do we want to put on Granny's birthday cake"? Bob says "put uh...Ok Ben Happy Birthday." And she, Brenda wouldn't do it, so they was a telling me about they had happy birthday granny so uh...they brought me the big birthday cake and had ordered it at Montgomery's Super Market. And uh...I told the girls you wait until his birthday rolls around I'm gonna order him a birthday cake and happy birthday Wild Dog on there.

B: How much did you grandmother charge the men that lived in here boarding house? Do you remember?

RA: I don't remember that I can remember back I use to know what that they paid her. And uh...and they did worshing too for 'em. And my mother she helped grandma out by doing laundry for them to you know. And uh...and what they paid I don't' remember I sware I can't remember that. I use to know but that's how grandma made it you know was uh...with the boarding house and their meals, cooking their meals and doing their laundry you know. Miners that uh ...that had to board here you know. That lived away maybe they'd go home for the weekend you know. Get off and come in here and work you know and that's how she...how grandma made it.

B: What mine did you uh...father work at? What mine company did he work for?

RA: Well he worked up Red Jacket. And uh...like I said he worked up here at Sulphur Creek. See there was a mines up there they...he worked up there and then he used to work over next to Island Creek some and he had to walk. I know he walked through the mountains to get over there to work. I don't' know whether it was over there around Delbarton somewheres up in there that he would walk. And uh...and I can remember then my daddy buying a he finally bought him a car. And uh...he had his horse you know had the horses...or course they plowed in all you know and he had a wagon. My daddy well at one time there he had a grocery store over here at the highway and when...they lived over there my daddy owned a house over there and they had a grocery store. And my daddy's first wife died and they never did have any children. They'd had been married ten years. And when my mother moved down here her husband was killed that's uh...he uh...met my mother then and they married. And they...she rented this and moved over there into that house and had my daddy had the grocery store. And he had a horse and wagon and he delivered groceries like up at Lynn and all the way up the road and around here. I would go with him I would sit in that wagon seat you know with him, I loved to ride that and it was ok. Well he got this car and he's taking us all for a ride in his car and Aunt Pearl and uncle Glen and uh...they have a son the same age as me and one younger and uh...then it was me and my younger...one that was younger than me Haven...Haven was the young one. Anyway Haven went to sleep and my mother laid him up in the back..behind the back seat in the window asleep wrapped up there you know asleep ...and daddy started around the curve and uncle Doug had down from Borderland that's where it was and we was going down there and uh.. ..he started around this curve and he got to...up on the bank to close going around that curve and it caused the car to flip and had the cloth top cars then. And there was a bunch of guys a sitting on some pies over beside of the road and they run over and went to pull out of there, getting us out and I was the only one hurt. I had a pretty big pump knot on my forehead but they got the baby and they baby had just rolled down in the seat it was still asleep it had never woke up. And so that scared me I thought the baby had been killed you know. And I went to screaming I couldn't...I just screaming and my daddy had to slap me to bring me out of it. He said "he's asleep" and I said "the baby's dead", "the baby's dead", you know and so they set the car back up onto its wheels and all got back in and I said "well if he gets me home, I'll never ride this again." I says "just throw Kate in the wagon is the only thing I'm gonna ride from here on out". He didn't keep the car long he sold it though and uh...but I remember that... But now he could never get me in that car again. Even today I don't like cars my husband was a teaching me (to) drive wanted me to go make my operators card back when we were young. Now I said "I've got you to drive I don't need to drive". But I regret it now because after he had the heart attack I could have been a driving. I would have meant a...been wonderful to have been able to drove. I just always got a mind of my own. Set ways as the old saying goes.

B: What kind of stuff did your mom buy? Did your mom buy your clothes or did she make your clothes?

RA: My mother sewed she was a wonderful seamstress and so she sewed and made her clothes and like I said I delivered papers and I'd go in the office over in the company store and they had bolts of material then you know. I'd buy enough material for mom to make her dress and she'd make me a dress and I'd buy material that she could make the boys like a shirt you know. And I'd buy the boys shoes and over hauls. The bib over hauls out of the money money went a pretty good ways then cause everything was cheap you know. And uh...later on in the years like my youngest daughter I can remember going in the Hope's Department Store in Matewan and buying here a pretty little dress outfit for .59 cents you know. And uh I think had a picture of her when she was in...where did I get her that little outfit and I said "would you believe that cost fifty-nine cents?" And that was way back there you know. Or maybe it was my oldest daughter I guess it was. And uh...but that's who... my mother sewed and they made quilts, nothing was throwed away. Anything you out growed, heavy materials and things it was jut put into quilts you know and they'd all come in and they quilt over home. They had this frame that hung down from the ceiling that they'd put the quilt on you know. And they'd roll that they'd quilt it. Her and Aunt Pearl and Aunt Vic and Aunt Effie of mine they'd all sit around and quilt. Make those quilts, heavy quilts and I remember that. Winter time why that's when they did their quilting because summer time it was so much work putting up canning and all and uh...picking berries gathering the berries the fruit and everything and all the vegetables. My mother she'd big barrels of pickled beans and pickled corn you know and they had their hog they'd pickled pigs feet and ears and they smoked their hams and fixed them. And had that and they always had a beef uh...they had two beef to butcher were the two cows why they'd butcher the...in the fall they'd butcher one of them and then in the spring and that way they always had their meet you know. And they had sausage fried I can remember. And mom canning that meat and cooking it on an old cook stove and a tub outside on a fire place with the jars sitting down in it you know and papers keeping them from touching canning like that and it was amazing what in all she would cook. She was a wonderful cook, my mother was and uh...her mother was. Running the board house, that's the reason my grandmother did so well she's was such a good cook you know. And my mom said people from Virginia was real farmers and cooked you know and canned in all like that. I never could cook as good as my mother. I didn't like cooking when I was a girl, I'd do all the cleaning up the kitchen and all and I'd help her like paring vegetables and things but i didn't pay that much attention to her cooking like my two half sisters and the youngest sister she was a good cook. I just never did care. I'd get out...I'd rather be outside a working... doing anything for me to have done. And me and my brothers, little brothers would, times was so bad there we'd go to Alburn tipple over there, coal tipple and we'd pick up coal and uh...in sacks you know...and like a half a sack of coal and uh...I can remember going to, carrying mine and Charles was a little too much for him. I'd carry my sack, my half a sack of coal so far and sit it down and I'd go back and get his. And uh...when we'd get home daddy said "well now that's a good boy he carried right along with you'ins". I said "yep he got his coal here" and I remembered that. And aunt Pearl and uncle Glen they moved...they sold this out down here and the Phillips and they moved down by the railroad track along there. Uh...on down from where Frank Allara and them lives now. Mrs. Jennings their house burnt down but they had a...bought a big two story house there, and uncle Glen's mother lived across the tracks. There was some houses over there then straight across from them his mother lived over there and he...they moved down there. And uh...and I can remember them a coming back up...they didn't have the ground down there to tend and things like they did up here you know coming back up to moms.

B: What kind of groceries was there for your mother to buy? You know she canned so much..

RA: Well at uh...the main things was like I said that's the reason that they was so particular about that coffee you didn't pour out.. ..they had to buy their coffee you know. They bought coffee, sugar, and then up Sulphur Creek there they had a they raise sugar cane too back then you know and they had that mill the mule turned that and made the sargum (sorghum) you know molasses and uh...I can remember going up there and they'd uh...they'd fix that and they (would) can them molasses up in jars of molasses that was you know and uh...but it was like the flour. Had to buy the flour and uh... they'd take their corn there was a called a grease ? mill somebody had now ole man Elliott for one had one. And they would grind their corn you know into corn meal. And uh...or into corn chop like they fed the chickens too and uh...I can remember that and uh...but.

B: Who had the...

RA: Salt and maybe pepper something like that maybe. Course they'd buy things like that. And back then that was about it I'd say. For they had their bacons you know and they'd can up sausage and mix that sausage and canned jars of that sausage and set it up on the end and that grease would settled down here and sealed you know. That was the best sausage and my mother'd make the best gravy and biscuits and that sausage and fresh eggs you know a real breakfast. And she was a real cook and uh...we had the ole coal stove. And it had a warming closet up over it you know and that coal stove that kept that warm up there. And many a time we'd come in out of the garden lunch time and they'd be the biscuits she put them up in there and sausage and stuff that was left from breakfast that was her lunch we'd get us a biscuit and sausage cake and glass of milk and we lived good.

B: Who had the molasses making place? Do you remember?

RA: I believe it was McCoy. See ole man uh...ole man Kay McCoy he owned up to the head of Sulphur Creek and then his daughter that was ole man Sam McFerrell his daughter Corey they lived up there then in...in...after grandma passed away. I think they bought that there where the ole big boarding house and they lived there. And I think they is the ones that had the...had the...the mill that made the sugar cane. Took the sugar...the sugar people that raised the sugar cane they'd take it up there and they'd grind it and then they'd put it there and they'd boil it and I can remember them a stirring and we loved...we'd take out spoons all of us kids would take a spoon and wouldn't let...foam, we'd dip that up and lick it. And uh...we loved to go to that and uh...they'd have food and this and that you know it was just kindly gatheing you know. And that was the way it was back then neighbors it was all neighbors.

B: Um...what stories did you hear abut the feud when you were young? You said you heard stories about the feud.

RA: Well seemed to me like back when daddy, I heard him talking abut that it started at election. Seemed to me like the Hatfield and McCoy and they 'd got into it and I forgotten just exactly how that went. But I used to know all that. They they shot and killed some McCoy boys down here on the railroad I mean on the river seemed to me like. And it all led up to it you know it was bad then. And uh...ah...you can...some of them got into a argument or something at election. And uh...maybe one was shot and they was fighting or something I don't' remember exactly how that was but uh...I do remember daddy talking about that. And uh...that was uh...Hatfield and McCoy feud heard that all the time growing up you know about that. And so everything...everything was rough now then it was uh...grew up and they made....Hatfield's and McCoy's made peace with each other you know. And like aunt Pearl and uncle Glen's daughter Ruth she's a McCoy you see and she married a Hatfield. And I said "you think about that them Hatfield and McCoy's has finally got peace now here they are they're a marrying now." Marrying one another and uh...it uh...and I can hear I remember daddy talking about I forgotten his just how that went. Anyway they'd...they just sit fire to one of them's house and was shooting at them as they run out I forgotten just exactly how it all went. But I...back then it was fantastic hearing them talking about it you know it was something, it was terrible lets put it that way. So they got that finally all peace and quit that's what I'd like to see the union come to the union get their contracts and all of them work together and be for the union. For it's all for their benefit.

B: Where did...oh I'm sorry. Where did you go to school when you were a little girl?

RA: Well over here at where Wootsie Hope lives now on top of the hill over here. Up above uh...Robert McCoy and them you know where they live over here up from the railroad. Coming up from Matewan there was a school that was the Magnolia school there. And we all we went to school over there until we got seemed like they taught over there till you got maybe fifth or sixth grade and then we went to Matewan. We'd have to walk and go to Matewan school then there was the old grade school there at Matewan you know. And go to school there and then later one they built the high school then up there where it's not it's gone down. But uh...the regular old school was one of the big columns down here the first...the first one there. And they got it all tore out now but that was where we went to school and we went over there at that uh...Magnolia over there on that point and uh...well it was all just a one big...one room school house you know. That's where we went and we had different class, different groups you know different classes. And so that was it, it was just reading and writing arithmetic you know that was it spelling that was about what we were taught.

B: Were all the different ages together in that room?

RA: Yeah they were. The younger ones were up front and then you know there's groups on back different uh...grades I mean and uh...the ole man Harry Chafins lived down by the railroad track. Down at the side where I said aunt Pearl and uncle Glen moved in. Their daughter Maryilee she taught up there on the hill. She was one of the teachers there. Seemed to me like they had two teachers there and anyway had a big ole pot bellied stove coal stove right in the middle of the school that heated it you know and I can remember that.

B: What kind of school supplies did you have? Do you remember?

RA: Well it was just I...a table and pencil and I mean you took care of it honey. It was hard to come by you really had to take care of it. You had the spelling book the reading book and uh... seemed to me like and uh...that was what I like to say that was mostly what was taught. And you had the black board you know that like they put the arithmetic up on the black board and we'd bring home homework and take it back in the next day what we had to do and I remember that.

B: What was the black board made out of? Was it slate or...

RA: I don't really remember that now, but I guess it was kindly maybe a slate I don't know but it was uh...they had one end that black board up there and we'd get to go up and do problems on the board and our spelling and so on you know. She'd uh...she'd give out the spelling and we'd write in out tablet you know was how we did out spelling. Then we'd turn it into her and she'd grade it The ones we got right and so on. And then we had a reader and we was to stand up by our seat and read out loud you know. Each one had to read so much that was what the school was about. And then we had a break at recess you know then lunch time you know we always took our lunch with us to school. We'd have us a biscuit and maybe an apple and uh...so that was...that was what school was all about.

B: What kind of games did you play during recess? Did they girls and they boys play together or did you play separate?

RA: Now usually the boys would uh...one end of the school and then the other end the girls and we'd throw ropes...jump rope and they boys would play ball you know they was uh...they'd play ball and things like that and I can remember what they (call) hop scotch. We'd have us a hop scotch and the girls we'd be a doing that and that was about what we played. And tag, tag too remember that running if you tagged somebody they were it then you know. That was the games that they played at the school.

B: What...what...okay, I'm sorry.

RA: Then when we went to Matewan school the ole Lady Hoskins she was the principal there at the grade school there you know. We went to seemed to me like we went to the eighth grade there and then when they had the high school my tenth, eleventh, twelfth grade. I can uh...then Mr. and Mrs. Montgomery they were...

RA: And the seventh and eighth I went to and the ninth grade and I...this always stood out in my mind I was u....I never did like lotions, perfume, things like that. I just never did...I just didn't like it at all. Now some of these girls they'd uh...buy... they'd buy perfume at Hope's Department store. I've forgotten the name of it now, and they'd have that perfume on and so I the girls a sitting around me so teacher was up at the board and uh...I was trying to think which teacher it was anyway she was, her back turned so I got up out of my seat and moved over next...over to the end of the last row by the window and opened the window. So she turned around she said why (what) are you doing over there. What are you doing with that window opened disturbing the class. I said I just wanted to sit over here where I could get some fresh air. So she sent me to the office she says well you can go to the office for moving without my permission. So I went into the office and uh... they all knew me you know where I delivered papers so Mr. Montgomery says "now what's...what's wrong." So I told him what happened you know why I did it and he says well I'll tell you what, you take your books and you go in the study hall where Mrs. Harris then was the...she took care of the study hall you know and he says "you go in there with your books and study." And he says and sit...don't sit down with any of those stinking children, get a table by yourself so you won't have to smell the stinking ones with all of that perfume you know is what he was a telling me. I guess is what he was a telling me so I went in there and I told Mrs. Harris what you know why I got sent in there for and so she got a kick out of it to. But I never did care for perfumes...and the girls did they really went all out for that. And my mother there after I was taking care of her and helping her, helping her you know in the bathroom and all she loved, they was all the time bringing her bath powders boxes of bath powders and a big powder puff you know and lotions and oh my mother loved that. I'd get here in that little bathroom help her get bathed and get in her dress and here she'd be just a throwing them bath powders. I'd go to choking and I said "mom I'm gonna have to get out and save myself and then I'll get out and save you." And she would laugh over that she says when you were little you always despised powder. And I can remember that I said mommy and here bath powder and she always got a kick out of it.

B: Did you all go to the movies when you all were little?

RA: Yeah they had the movie in Matewan. And my husband they moved down here on the hill where the mail boxes and things it's got for sale there. Then it's a double wide trailer maybe sitting here there was a house then. His parents had bought that they'd moved down here from Majestic and he worked, my husband worked at Freeburn I believe in the coal mines in Majestic anyway uh...down here on the corner you know and so we...on a Thursday they had, they played maybe it was bingo maybe, I think it was bingo night at the theater. And we'd go we all liked to play that bingo and Dorothy Literoll(?) they lived down here on the corner it was here and Mildred DeHart and uh...Kenny Phillip's sisters Phyllis, Phyllis and Helen I guess were their names. Well anyway we'd all gather up together there but ole man Literoll(?) then they'd some of them got to riding and going. And ole man Literoll and his daughter Dorothy he had a pick up truck he'd take...he'd pick me up down here at the corner and I'd ride with them down to the theater. And so that one evening mom was kindly tired and she told me I couldn't go till I got the, her kitchen all cleaned up and we had a great big long kitchen you know, table sitting there so I had to do all that so I told my little brother Frank and I said "run down to the corner and tell Mr. Literoll and Dorothy that I'm gonna be a little late for them to go ahead". And Dorothy save me a seat she always saved me a seat you know. Theater was, didn't get to ride down with them. So this couple...this family had moved in and my husband and he had a brother he was a little short guy and Bill was a big tall guy so I'd walk down one evening to Literolls and Mrs. Literoll she knows I was always a tease you know. She said well come on in they's all sitting on the front porch she was sitting out there with the girls. Says there all betting which ones gonna get that good looking Aliff boy that moved in up there, the tall one. I says well the...there's no bet to it they might as well forget it they haven't' got a chance I said with me. And I never had dated nothin' or I might have dated once or twice but I never had no...cared nothing about a boy. (laughing) And uh...so she got a big kick out of me saying that. Like I say it was the next evening and uh... then Dorothy's daddy and her mothers was out on the porch they had heard me saying that you know. That I sent my little brother Franklin down to tell them to go ahead. Well uh...Bill had been seeing me go by and his older sister Reba, he'd Bill had been bragging on me. And she's say oh Bill says there goes that pretty girl and she's missed her ride said here's your chance. He had a pick up truck so I walked you see and the time he got out and got in his truck I was down around the curve there starting down the river down here at the crossing at Sulphur Creek I was almost there you know and he pulls up beside of me "you want a ride?" I said "no thank you". And he says "oh come on says I know you missed your ride", he says "I'm going to Matewan you can ride down with me". I said "well ok" so I run and got in. I forget who it was that sold tickets at the theater then...anyway uh...when I...he'd parked right across from the theater there you know like where Nenni's is along there now. And uh...walked across and here's some of the girls there on the side walk I'd went to school with and standing laughing talking with them and he'd went on and bought my ticket and bought his too. So I said well I'm gonna go ahead on in Dorothy's a holding me a seat so I walked up to the window to buy my ticket and he says I already have your ticket and so she seen him get that ticket you know and so she then...whoever it was that was taking up the...selling the tickets then she was getting a kick out...she's a waiting for me to come over there. And uh...so uh... I looked at him and said well ok. And then I though now Dorothy this is gonna be fun. Her daddy always sit kindly in the back of the theater got him a seat but Dorothy always sit up closer up front and had me a seat, she had the seat turned up you know holding it for me so Bill said "where do you want to sit?" And so right down from Dorothy there was two seats so I said "well I want to sit down front there". So we went down went and got...so here Dorothy seen me and her daddy had seen me go by you know and Dorothy said she got back to the truck she said "oh" said, "did you see who Ruby come in the theater with? No wonder she missed our ride and not ride with us." So that oh we dated for a year there and was married. But they all got such a kick out of that, over that you know. And uh..over me saying they didn't...the rest of them have a chance, chance and her mother and they all got such a kick out of that. And I said "honestly I didn't know the guy was interested in me at all". Honestly no way I said I had spoke you know but I and like I say my brother Franklin delivered papers to them. And so uh...we were married and we've been married fifty years this September, the 28th of September. His birthday is the 27th of January he'll be 72. My birthday is the 27th of April I'll be 69 this coming April. I told him I said "well we should have made that the 27th, I don't know why we went and got married on the 28th". We got married on...over at Belfry, went over there and got married. And uh...so then he... we stayed with my parents 'till we...he built like I say got us one room finished, he started out four rooms and he finished...finished one room that was our kitchen and we had a bed in it here. And this was a back porch I think then and then he built more on to it now you see but it was just uh... that's the way it was with rooms so he finished room at the time. He was always a good worker Bill was. We all got along good we've had the best life together. He's...he's a dandy I'll tell you he's a fine person. Like I say all my family liked him, mother and daddy thought the world of him.

B: When you all get...when you all got married, where did you get married?

RA: At over here at Belfry uh...you know at Pond Creek.

B: Did you go to a ministers house?

RA: Uh...no we uh...he got our marriage licenses yeah we went to it was a preacher. They had lived over at Belfry and that he knew we went to his house and...and he...the preacher married us there in his house. We were pretending we were going to the movies up on Thursday...we went over there and got married instead of going to the movies...we come back married. And I can remember my mommy laughing about it about "well we're going to the movies". And uh...we dated like I say there a year and uh...he would come up home there to see me you know. Winter time there and sit around the fire place he liked his cup of coffee, I went in the kitchen to get him a cup of coffee and my brother Haven, he's just a little boy you know. And uh...cause daddy didn't have no truck or anything they were fascinated with Bill's pick up truck. So he was advising Bill as I come back with my cup of coffee he said "now Ruby's not after a thing but that truck of your". And says "she wears out...it take a pair of shoes every week for her" said "she'll wear out a pair of shoes in a weeks time". Says "buddy you don't want Ruby". This is my little brother I'd holler hey mommy make Haven come to the kitchen...that tickled Bill to death. Uh... warned him that I was after his truck and so he would say that after that, ah...you just married me for my pick up truck.

B: Could you come and go as you please or how did your father control your dating? What did he do?

RA: You know they...I never had dated any you know. They was real strict and all and of course I had never seen...I'd been interested in any ways it didn't bother me. They'd let me go to the movies like I say us girls would all go to the movies together. And we'd go to church the girls went together and uh...Sunday school and uh ...but they liked...they liked Bill. Mother liked him and daddy and they liked his parents they just real good people you know. And they were...they were originally from Virginia, so my mother really though a lot of them cause she's been born and raised in Virginia. And uh...and all my brothers they all thought a lot of Bill and they went into service and they'd come home and always come over here you know and sit around my dining room table with us. And uh...and my daddy like him real well and uh...but I never will forget when ...when we married and uh...Bill first talked about maybe getting us a place at Freeburn. See he worked up there at Majestic and Freeburn mines and getting a house up there, and us moving...moving us up there. I can remember my daddy saying "that'd be awful", said "see you move and leave". You know he says "I don't' know what I'd do without you". You know and I remember him saying, I said "daddy don't worry". I says "I'll never leave this hill, no way will I ever leave this hill" I said "till they carry me off of it". And uh...so that's when uh..he let us have this then. We give him uh... uh...seemed like it's three lots fifty by maybe fifty by a hundred. Maybe down this way or two lots anyway I forget now whether it was we give him five hundred dollars I think maybe for it back then or I think what it was cause I've forgotten. But we paid it like paying rent to him you know. And uh...he helped us and made Bill work and fixed things. He's made these walks and built him a garage out back and a car port and we have a basement and all. Shower down there and our furnace you know that and like I say he kept building and adding on you know Fixing it up and uh...and I stayed right here. And my children loved mommy and daddy they watched my youngest...my oldest daughter Gloria. Now Gloria Jude and kids called Juney her brothers and she worshiped my mother and mom was the sweetest person ever was. And when I'd go in over there with her and my oldest son Bill she would run to mommy, get in mommy's lap you know and hug her. And daddy sitting, and daddy he kind of resented that you know but then Bonnie see she was the last one the youngest one when she...I took her in she would run to daddy first and get on his lap and hug him and he'd say "look a here Ethel I got...finally got me one". Then she would go to mommy you know she hugged and made over both of them. But she kindly favored her pappy you know, called them mammy and pappy that's what my children called them. And uh...and they'd...they just thought the world of them. That's all there is to it is letting them, my children and uh... but that always stood out in my mind, daddy getting a kick out of he finally got him one. And then Bonnie was just starting to walk, I mean she was holding onto furniture you know walking and it was at election time and daddy was a republican and mommy was a democrat. I always got a kick out of that them to going to vote you know. And uh...daddy tell us go vote Ethel so I can go kill your vote. And he was a big tease and so Bonnie was a holding onto the dining room furniture coming through the ole home place over there you know and daddy sitting in the living room he was washing, me and mom was in the kitchen and so he pulled a dollar out of his pocket he said if you'll turn a lose of that and walk to me I'll give you this. She turned loose and why he hollered "hey lookie" and here she went a pitty pattin' right up to him. He says "your just like these democrats" to hand them a dollar. So Bob used to kid mommy over...when ever it was right at election time. I never will forget that that always would, I always got such a kick out of that. I want you to look a yonder there mommy that youngin pitty pattin' walking and I couldn't get her to turn loose at all. And so now she's uh...she got her first on and he's ten months old now and she's twenty... Bonnie's twenty-seven I think. And uh...her husband and her has been married sixteen years. But Harry never did have any brothers he had one little sister. So Bonnie it was really bothering her because her brothers and her sister all they've all gotten...the youngest son has one son and Gloria has a son and a daughter Bob has two daughters and my son Bill that stays here with...their divorced but they had one daughter she's...now grown to she's about twenty-seven I guess now. Anyway Bonnie she came home to visit and stay with me a while and so she stayed I guess about six weeks with me. And they have a big nice home and everything you know doing real good and uh...she sitting in there and she's looking at all the grandchildren pictures I've got on the wall in the living room. She says they all have children but me says I'll end up in a home for the old retired folks. I said "yes and they'll have me across the street from ya for the retarded" I said "if you don't hush your not a old woman you can still...you may still have children, your not...no...no she says I've given up mommy. I'm gonna go back maybe and adopt me a little new born and then maybe one about two or three years. I said don't do that just wait you'll never know so she went back she'd been back home about three months I think and she called me on the phone she says mom I have this funny little story to tell you. And I said well lay it on me I love funny stories honey so she says I went for my regular check up and the doctor tell me I'm two months pregnant. I says, "Oh Bonnie you've made my day". And it was just wonderful of course I worried about her until he was born. And he is the finest baby ever was and she named him after Harry...Harry's dad passed away with a heart attack a couple of year before this baby was born and his dad was close so that really bothered Harry. And so now he's got him that boy Nathan Williams after his dad the old man I mean Bill. And the so they call him Nathan and so she brought him home...come home when he was four months old and the old man had been real sick there and he was in St. Mary's hospital two different times there so we hadn't been able to go down and visit with them since Nathan's been born. He like I say he's ten months old. He'll be uh...Bonnie's birthday is on the fourth of September and he was born on the fifth. The doctors and all everybody wanting that baby born on her birthday and he was born after midnight. That made it the fifth you know and my youngest son said I'd lied and I would have put on that birth certificate he was borned on my birthday. And uh...so it's really been a treat and she's...she brought him and come home and stayed a week with us and then my son drove her back. My daughter had brought her up with him there. And he is a dandy so that's a real treat a baby boy for her.

B: When your mother had her children did she have a midwife or did a doctor come?

RA: Well uh...mostly midwives uh...and daddy's uh...see later on his daddy remarried then after they got up older and her name was Reney(?) granny Reney we called her...and she was a midwife. That's what granny Reney did on uh...up there in Peter Creek and Johns Creek you know she was a midwife and uh...so I can remember her coming and having this little grip that all of their medicine and so on in it you know and I'd listen to her talk about doctoring different things you know. Back then they...pneumonia in all they doctored themself they'd fix mustard poultice they called it to put on their chest and on their back you know. Set with them and keep that fever down. Sponge them off in all and so uh...I'd listen to my granny Reney talk of different cases of how she...how they would doctored and took care of them. And this one story stood out in my mind this little kids is uh...about a year old some took a convulsion and how she broke that convulsion up you put them in warm water or roll them in warm...something to hold to the fire real warm and that would break that convulsion on them. And so uh...that was my daughter Gloria and Bill, Billy my son he was about two. He was around two you know and she, maybe three anyway she was just oh she might have been about six or seven months old and she took this convulsion on me in the living room and uh...I had gotten pregnant I guess she was about eight months old so I'd gotten pregnant with Bob and I had to wean her you know I breast fed her. And uh...so I'd put...I had a jersey cow that gave real rich milk and so I was fixing her bottle of that real rich milk so she took this convulsion on me so uh...I grabbed her blanket and put it against my...we had an open fire place then in the living room. I held it against that and rolled her up in it and uh...run over home and daddy went down and got Ralph Phillips, Bill was at work. Take her...take me down to Matewan hospital Doctor Hodge was there then and uh...when I wrapped her in that hot blanket that broke that convulsion and her mouth was drawing, her eyes jerking, you know her jerking and so doctor Hodge ask me what I did when I went in with it was broke, she wasn't having a convulsion. So I told him he said well you did the very thing that broke that convulsion. I said yeah I'd heard my granny Reney talk about it doctoring. And so he ask me what kind of milk you got her on. And I told him he said is it real rich milk. I said yeah it's a Jersey cow. He said you skin every bit and cream off that said that's what cause her to have a convulsion. And so I did that and didn't' have no more trouble with it. I skin the cream off you know and uh...she just grew fine on that Jersey cow milk.

B: Huh...that's fascinating.

RA: Like I said they...back then you know you had to listen to everything that was said like that and remembered it. And I can remember my son a patting her on the face baby you know cause he knew something was wrong you know. And I said she'll be alright honey and uh...and I remember my mother out, the old lady out here next door too she went over and got mom her and mom come and went, got us all and took me on down to the doctor and to the hospital and another time then my son, that was son Bill the oldest one he just a toddler and I'd give him a slice of apple. But he stumped his toe and he bit off a bite and suck it down his wind pipe and he was choking I grabbed him up you know working with him and I run out she was on...the ole lady Phillips was on the porch and she seen I told her. And I was running over home with him and she... but mommy wasn't over there. She'd gone with Betty Lou, my youngest daughter had come in from school she was a sister, she was there and uh...I'll run and get help down...and I said we haven't got time I said fill a glass of water for me and hand it to me. And he was already you know passed out so I poured his mouth full of water and he went to gurgling that water and I threw him...stomach and chest up against this arm hit him with my arm in the back and knocked that piece of apple out. And here I running out holding him, to him and I was a coming out through here crying holding him because it had bothered me so. The ole lady Phillips thought he had died and Bill come in from work and I had my...had an ole coal stove then you know so I had my supper on that stove he come in the supper was a burning up and I was sitting in there in my rocking chair holding him and rocking him still a crying he came... "what's wrong", nothing...nothing now. And I said it was bad, he says I knowed it had to be something and that stove, you wasn't in that kitchen I said but I saved his life like that. That's uh... mom says well it was a good thing you remember I remember about granny Reney talking about that you see I remembered that so I saved his life there.

B: Did they ever talk abut the flu epidemic hitting around here?

RA: Oh yeah. It hit...my mother went and helped uh...they'd go to the doctor and helped out. What I mean you know patients that was...oh yeah there was a lot see that's what killed my dads first wife was the flu it killed her and of course the flu killed his mother when he was a little boy and he remembered that you know and so that killed her she died with the flu. And uh...and they's oh there was a buring them on every grave (yard) around here. I can remember them talking about that flu epidemic then and uh...but we was always lucky. Mom was a good hand to the doctor too you know. Fix...fix up cough syrup and offer us to gargling in and so on. And uh...and I know one thing she always (told me) that I'll remember was when they get that sore throat and all you know why she'd uh... take water, water and put a little salt in it and a little baking soda and a little bit of vinegar and have us...have them to gargle in that you know. And that was healing you know to their throat and that was one of the episodes we always did and they'd fix uh...they'd fix up something and grease their chest. I forget how they fixed that now. They'd doctor and I remember my brother my half brother Herbert having pneumonia and doctoring her and Aunt Pearl. (They) doctor on him you know and saving... back then that was the old the old time went.

B: Did your father ever talk about a group of men called the wild catters? Did you ever hear about the wild catters?

RA: Well that was uh...that was a striking miners wasn't it? Wasn't there with the union or so on was it, or wasn't it?

B: Well uh...

RA: I'll try...no that was the union wasn't it that come out on the wild cat strikes? Yeah that's the way that was.

B: But their was another group that Rex Harmon was telling me about that back in the thirties if a boss was bad to his men, there was a group of men Mose Adkins was one of them and they'd go and they'd way lay them and beat the bosses up. Did you ever hear about anything like that?

RA: Yeah...I've...I've heard of that. I've heard of that. Well yeah they uh..they uh...I can remember them talking abut that too. That's uh...

B: Was your father ever involved...

RA: No.

B: ...or did he ever...

RA: No I don't think...he always liked the bosses they had and uh...seemed like he always...and they all like him you know. He was a likeable person but uh...but the guys he worked with they liked him because he was a joker and all they called him wild dog. Wild they say but they just nick named him that gave him that you know.

B: Mary Ward told me that uh..her father belonged to the Klan. Did you ever hear anything about men around here joining the Klans?

RA: Seeming like I heard that too. But uh...like I say I don't... Mary's I know that's Earlene's mother and uh...Mary I think is a little older than me. But uh..seemed like I remember that. Like I say I tell you I did a lot of worry there over my mother and daddy and uh...it bothered me an awfully lot. Matter of fact I couldn't go in the house for a long time over home. But uh...and uh...I think worry sometimes kindly...it kindly makes you absent minded and I near as swift as I use to be in remembering. I said I wish now I'd wrote down everything now because uh...now I am getting forgetful I forget things that...then sometimes it will come to me it's just like names. Bill maybe he'll say well what was their name...what was his name. I said Lord I know their name as good as I do mine but I can't remember it and then maybe I can walk off don't even...it will come to me. Come back out...yeah it come to me I remember it now and I can remember my mommy and daddy saying that you know and its...like I say I'm a getting old you know and it's amazing how some people on up in their eighties and nineties and be just as swift. Mr. Charlie Elliott over here for one and that grocery store he's got there and he and my mother is about the same age. If my mother was still living she'd be about ninety-four now. She died there in eighty-two she was eighty-eight when she died. And so that Charlie Elliott I says...

Matewan Oral History Project Collection