Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Pauline Roberson Interview

Becky Bailey: This is Becky Bailey for the Matewan Development Center. Saturday morning June 15th, 1989. I'm in the board room of the Matewan National Bank. And I'm going to interview Pauline Roberson Vice President of the Bank and daughter of Charlie Kiser. Uh...Pauline the first question I have for you then is when you were born and where?

Pauline Roberson: September the 20th 1922, Matewan.

B: And who were your parents?

PR: Uh...Charles Kiser and Leana Kiser.

B: And according to the stories around town your mother was a war bride. Could you tell me some about that?

PR: Yes she was living in Luxembourg and my dad was station in Luxembourg and uh...they met and uh...of course her parents did not want her to marry an American solider because they didn't her to leave home. And uh...she decided that she would not get married and then she decided she would so they were married and then immediately left for the United States.

B: How had they met?

PR: Uh...her brother was a friend of my dad. And that's how...I think that's how they met.

B: Ok. Did your mother maintain contact with her family in Luxembourg?

PR: Oh yes. She had uh...one sister and one brother.

B: Did she ever tell you much about Luxembourg? Luxembourg is a country most Americans don't know. Is it German is it a Germanic country a French country or?

PR: Uh...it's more Germany I believe than uh...in fact she spoke more German.

B: I interviewed your aunt Stella Presley a few weeks ago. And she said your mother spoke several languages.

PR: She does....she spoke French and German of course they uh...I think that Luxembourg most people did speak German.

B: Ok. Did your father speak a foreign language when he went to Luxembourg?

PR: No...no.

B: How did they communicate do you know?

PR: I don't know...I don't know.

B: Ok.

PR: Obviously they did.

B: Ok uh....how many brothers and sisters do you have?

PR: I have one brother and uh...I had six sisters and one of my sisters died when she was uh...about four years old.

B: Was it an accident or...

PR: No she had scarlet fever.

B: Ok. Lets see um...where do you fit into the sibbling [sic] order?

PR: I'm second.

B: Ok.

PR: Second oldest.

B: How did your mother adjust to life in Matewan? Uh...did she ever talk about how different it was from where she...

PR: Yes of course she lived at Meador when she came here. Which is eight miles from Matewan. And uh...they lived with my grandparents and it was very hard but uh...she was kind of like one of the children. And uh...they uh...actually taught her more English than...than uh...she learned any other way cause she had to learn to speak English because they did not know German or French.

B: Ok. What kind of uh...area did she live in in Luxembourg was she a town dweller or had she grown up on a farm?

PR: No, it was just a small town I would say similar to Matewan.

B: Did she ever tell the name of the town?

PR: Tetange (T.E.T.A.N.G.E.)

B: Ok. I guess the question that follows from that Pauline is uh... What did your parents ever tell about the events surrounding the Matewan Massacre and the trial?

PR: My dad didn't talk about it very often, my mother uh.. mentioned uh.. being very scared 'caused she didn't speak English and she did not know exactly what was going on and on one incident uh.. she and my dad was going uh.. toward Meador and they uh.. something happened at Red Jacket and uh.. of course my dad then took her home and came back and by the time he got back whoever was on the side of the road giving him problems, they had gone but that was ..that was mostly the only incident actually that she had talked about very much

B: Ok. And you say you had an older sister that was probably born around...

PR: She was born in March and that happened in May.

B: We've heard that your father left this area to become a professional union organizer, how long after the, the events surrounding the Matewan Massacre did he leave, Did he remain in Matewan area long?

PR: Uh..Yes he was here until uh.. probably '32

B: Ok.

PR: And he went to Logan County and was he was a field representative in the Logan County area.. Then he went from there to Detroit, Michigan and uh.. I'm not sure.. he came back he came back to this area probably in '41 as a field representative in Williamson

B: Ok. Had he had been the original union organizer in this area? Did, do you know anything about that?

PR: No, I'm, I'm not, I don't know anything about that.

B: Alright. What kind of customs did your mother keep from the old country when you all were little that perhaps set you apart from your your classmates, do you remember anything that your mother did that you remember thinking at the time was different from other mothers around here?

PR: Not right off I can't...Of course she told us what uh..How they celebrated Christmas was with a little different and their Christmas Day was different and uh.. but uh.. as far.. uh.. She told us a lot of things that they, they did , but they did not get gifts of course we didn't get the gifts that children get today but uh..They hadn't it was more of a religious holiday than more or less monetary like people think of it now.

B: Ok. What was your mother's religion?

PR: Catholic.

B: Ok.

PR: Of course she became a Methodist because uh.. when we were growing up the Catholic Church was in Williamson which it is now and she did not have an opportunity to go but she was still uh.. she had did a lot the uh.. the uh.. she worship in her own way as a Catholic and then she started going to the Methodist Church and she was a member of the Methodist Church when she left when she died.

B: Ok.

PR: In fact she was uh.. she was secretary to the treasury of the W.S.C.S. of the Methodist Church for 25 years.

B: And what is that? Is that the uh..

PR: Woman's Organization uh huh of the Methodist Women.

B: Ok. Did she teach you any of her native languages when you all were little did you..

PR: No because she was too busy trying to learn English I suppose and of course we took uh and I know I took French in high school but uh..she would sing uh.. in German or in French and there were a lot of songs she knew and uh that one of the things that I remember... She was very loyal to the United States and uh she was a Democrat but if we had a Republican President she always supported who ever the President was.. she said that uh.. she felt that he needed the support who .. whether you were Republican or Democrat.

B: Had she ever said u.. what the feelings were of her native town were towards the American troops obviously..

PR: Oh they liked them 'caused yes they, they uh.. Did a lot for the American troops in her...the little town she was in.

B: I suppose they...did they uh...put them up in their homes...

PR: Right u-hum...u-hum. In fact that maybe where...how my dad I'm not sure but that might be how. But I know he was...he was in the little town where she was living at the time they met.

B: How old was she when they met?

PR: Uh...she was probably eighteen.

B: Ok. Did she ever mention much about the war? Did they war touch her little town?

PR: Uh...oh yes.

B: What did she...did she...

PR: Of course the German's were coming into the...her town and uh...I can't remember any specifics but she did mention various things that happened.

B: So she became uh...devoted American?

PR: Oh yes...oh yes.

B: Did she ever consider returning home after your parents divorce?

PR: No. She went home for a visit but no she was...she was a hundred percent American. She uh...liked to display the flag. That's one of the things I remember as a child. We had uh...flag and she'd always have it out and she respected the flag as well as the president.

B: Did you all ever accompany her when she would go home?

PR: She only went home once. And uh...no my brother and his wife and young son took her back home. And that was uh...I think maybe in 79 and at that time she had a brother who was still living and uh...then maybe a couple months after she uh...came back her brother died. That was the only...her mother and father and her sister had died many years ago.

B: And she'd never had a chance to see them after she left?

PR: No. That was one promise my dad broke. He told her he would take her back home but she had uh...all the children and of course and he didn't uh...he made a good living but not a lot of money and of course they separated in...in early 40's and he just uh....he just never took her back home.

B: How did uh...your mother support your family after your parents separated?

PR: My...my dad supported us. She was always a homemaker.

B: Speaking of your father do you know anything about how the Kiser family came to this area?

PR: U-hum. My grandfather was a native of Charlotte, North Carolina and he came her uh...to work for uh...a lumber company. And that's how he and my grandmother met. Course he worked in the coal mines here and he also did a lot of farming to support his large family.

B: Was this in the late eighteen hundred then?

PR: No I would say...yes...yes it was. Yeah...oh yeah. Cause my dad was he was born in probably 95.

B: Did the older folks ever tell stories about what this area was like? Uh....I guess this would have been the time of the coming of the railroad to this area when your...they never said?

PR: U-hum.

B: Has the spelling of the name always been K.I.S.E.R?

PR: Yes. B

: Do you know was anything ever said with the name of the German leader during the first World War having been Kiser, Wilham(?) was there ever any...do you know of any stories? Was there ever anything? A connection maybe?

PR: No u-hum.

B: Ok. And you hear stories of dramatic sounding names being changed during first World War. Ok. U...I guess starting in with questions about you. What's some of your first memories of this area? Were you raised in Meador or did your mother to Matewan?

RP: Uh...I was...I was born in Matewan and lived here until I was in uh...the uh...first grade. I went to the primer in Matewan and then went to uh...then we moved to Meador uh...that was in the depression. And then I went to...course I went to school at Meador and then at Red Jacket Jr. High and then graduated from Magnolia High School.

B: Were you born at home or in a hospital? Was there a hospital then?

PR: I'd say I was born at home I'm not really sure I never did ask.

B: Ok.

PR: No...no well now I could have been uh...I know that a doctor signed my...it was not a mid-wife it was a doctor but whether not I was...whether my mom was in the hospital or at home I'm not sure. Just never did ask.

B: Ok. But it seems like it could have gone either way depending on where...were your parents living in town when you were born?

PR: U-hum.

B: Ok. Do you know where in town they were living?

PR: Probably uh...above the underpass on the left. In the McKinsey addition is probably where they were living.

B: What memories stand out in your mind about your childhood? Any games that you played or any special friends that you've had?

PR: Yes we uh..'course we had to make our own recreation we didn't have TV, we didn't have radio. And uh...we just enjoyed having a play house and uh...we I know my dad made some doll furniture beds. Of course my mom then if we had a doll she would make clothes. She used to make a lot of our clothes. And uh...we just more or less entertained ourselves.

B: I suppose probably by the time that you had a distinct memory there was...was there electricity in your home?

PR: Uh...when we first moved to Meador I was probably uh...eight or nine years old. Now we did not...we had oil lamps and uh...I'm not sure I would say probably 35, or 36. 1936 or 36 is...before they had electricity at Meador. Of course we had electricity here in Matewan when we lived here.

B: What are some of your first school memories? You say you went to the primer here in town. Do you remember where that was?

PR: Yes I went to the uh...grade school in Matewan. Mrs. Frank Allara was my teacher. And then from there when we moved to Meador I know I skipped one grade that was back when I suppose I had gotten a good start here in Matewan. And I know I skipped the first grade and went to the second grade.

B: What kind of teacher was Mrs. Allara?

PR: She was a very good teacher.

B: Was she strict?

PR: Oh yes...yes. Of course back during those times uh...kids were a little different than what they are now. We didn't....

B: More obedient....

PR: Right we didn't have a lot and we respected...actually teacher more than what a lot of them do now a day.

B: Do you remember I don't suppose you would remember but you might know from later, how big a school the grade school was here in Matewan? Was it a one room school?

RP: Oh no it was uh...it was uh...probably fifteen...it was brick near the old high school in the upper end of town across from W & E. But it was a very nice building at the time.

B: What sort of supplies did a child have to have say in the late twenties in the early thirties when they went to school? Do you remember any of the school supplies that you had?

PR: I guess a tablet and a pencil. We didn't have book bags I know that.

B: Who provided the school books that you used? Was that something that was provided by the...

PR: Uh...I believe at that time I think we bought and then later uh...they were provided by the uh...to the county to a    ____ what ever.

B: You say when you were eight or nine you moved to meador, what kind of distance was that like at the time? Did it remove you

PR: Yes definitely...

B: from day to day contact from Matewan?

PR: Yes definitely. In fact we moved in uh...my grandfather had a team of horses and a wagon and that's how we moved from Matewan to Meador. Of course the was uh...during the depression.

B: What kind of uh....connection did Matewan and Meador have? Was it a road?

PR: Yes a road.

B: What was the state of the road at the time?

PR: I would say it was probably just a dirt road.

B: What kind of things stand out in your mind when you think back on the depression? Are there any...is there anything that really stands out about how your....

PR: Well I know my dad uh...had a garage was part of a garage and then uh...some-thing happened I don't know anyway uh...I don't whether he sold it or he lost it then he started selling uh...Singer Sewing Machines. And I think that was what he was doing when we moved to Meador. And uh...I think it was soon after that that he went to Logan County. Uh...probably went to work in the coal mines over there and then became uh...worked for the union.

B: Had he been kept out of working in the mines because of his uh...union activities in Matewan?

PR: No I don't believe so. Not that I know of.

B: Did the people in Meador come to Matewan for their uh...grocery supplies or their entertainment? Uh...to come to the movies?

PR: Well uh...we had a grocery store at Meador which was near where we lived. And uh..then uh...a lot of the people of course bought from the company store at Red Jacket. Miners and uh...I'm that if we had to have supplies a lot of supplies we had to come to Matewan. Or we used to ride the train to Williamson. If I know my mother and my aunt Steela uh...they would get..go...get the train to Williamson and spend the day to Williamson.

B: Ok. What do you remember about your aunt Stella when she was younger? Uh...it seems that she was in an unusual position being a working teacher and then married to a miner in then continuing her education as she did. What kind of a person was she when you were growing up?

PR: She was uh...a very outdoorsey type person. I know we used to go uh...out and the flowers the wild flowers and things like that she was good that would take us out and uh...taught us really a lot of the uh...wild flowers. Of course after she married she moved to North Matewan.

B: Do you remember anything about perhaps seeing how she and her husband interacted as uh...as a working couple?

PR: No.

B: Ok. Was the uh...type store in Meador supplies by the train? Is that how they got their supplies?

PR: No by truck. Probably from wholesale houses in Williamson or I would say or even uh...there was uh...a wholesale house in Matewan. Probably they did a lot of their supplies. Brought them that way.

B: Do you remember any of the candies that children favored when you were a young child?

PR: The B.B. Bat. You could buy those for a penny they'd last all day.

B: What was that?

PR: It's uh...sort of uh...a lolly pop type thing. And it was sort of real hard caramel like. That's what it was. In fact when I'd make my first pennies I'd uh...working for my aunt I'd always buy a B.B. Bat things. That was the...

B: Ok. B. B. Bat. How far did you go in school? Did you graduate from high school?

PR: Graduated from high school and I got a secretarial degree from West Virginia business college in Bluefield.

B: Did you go to Bluefield to study?

PR: Yes.

B: Ok. Where did you stay there?

PR: Uh...it was uh...it was not...they did not have dorms. It was a private home that kept college students. And the uh...the business school was in Bluefield. It is still there.

B: When did you attend the business...

PR: Uh...the fall of 1940 uh...until the fall of 1941.

B: What kind of restrictions did a girl living in a private home going to college have at that time? Did the family control your comings and goings?

PR: No. You were more or less on your own.

B: Did you take your meals with the family?

PR: Yes.

B: And after you received your degree did you return to Matewan?

PR: Yes u-hum. Came back to uh...we were living (clears throat) excuse me, we were living at North Matewan at the time. And I came back and uh...worked for an attorney in Williamson for a year. And then I got the job here in forty two. They've said that you and Aileen Phillips began about working here within about six months of each other?

PR: U-hum.

B: Ok. How did you uh...how were you hired?

PR: Uh...the president of the bank who was Dan Chambers uh...I had occasion to be with him and uh...he talking about what I was doing and so he ask me if I would write an application or a job here which I did. And they considered my application and uh...then called me in for interview and hired me.

B: What was your first position her in the bank?

PR: I was uh...I guess stenographer, secretary, receptionist, uh...a combination thing. There was only I think five people working at the time.

B: U...how did you move upwards in the bank from there?

PR: Hard work. As we uh...grew then uh...I just took on more and more duties and uh...then some of the things that I had started out doing was designated to another...somebody else.

B: Say when you first started working those five or so people what was the...the proportion of male to female at that time?

PR: Uh...I think we had two women and three men I think is what it was. Do you know not want to know how much I made on my first job?

B: Yes.

PR: I worked in Williamson I made thirty-five dollars a month. I had to take a bus to Williamson and back and I think I paid maybe a dollar a day for my bus faire. So actually my dad was uh...supporting me and all I was doing was getting experience which I felt like I need because I've always heard that an attorney is the best place if your uh...taking short hand because that is good experience as well as typing. So I took that job because I could not find anything else. And I made thirty-five dollars a month.

B: So you spent your monthly salary....

PR: Pretty much on bus faire.

B: Getting to work.

PR: Right. And I walked from North Matewan to Matewan to get the bus. There was a bus...the bus ran but it was uh...a miners bus more or less so it came down at six thirty in the morning I caught the bus at 7:15 so i would walk down to get the bus then at 7:15.

B: How long was your work day then...

RP: Uh...I worked from nine to four. But it took me uh...well I'd leave home at six thirty and I believe I came back on the uh...I think when I first started I came back on he uh...train. That ran around four thirty.

B: At....

B: Your father had bought your family a car and you took the car to work?

PR: Right.

B: Ok.

PR: And uh...I usually had a two or three people riding with me and we sort of car pool in the sense. And uh...but uh...there was several people in the area that worked in Williamson at that time. In fact the sheriff deputy sheriff who was uh...G.G. Blankenship the sheriff during the Matewan Massacre he was a deputy sheriff and he used to ride to Williamson with me a lot of times. That's Gerry Reams father.

B: Right. I don't suppose that you all ever talked about what had gone on in years past?

PR: No.

B: How did you learn who to drive?

PR: My sister uh...had her drivers license and uh...at the time I learned to drive we lived at Meador and I would uh...bring the car out of the hollar and I did not get on the highway I was...I went up and down the hollow to learn to drive.

B: About what year did you learn to drive? Do you remember?

PR: 1941.

B: So there was probably gas rationing going on not long after that.

PR: After that soon after that right. Cause I remember I think I have one of the coupon books for gas. I think I do.

B: Where were the uh...local gas stations? Were did you get gas?

PR: Uh...B. & C. Oil Company. Near the Buskirk Building. And then there was City Motor. Which is uh...the tire shop now.

B: Ok. What did uh...what did you do for lunch when you worked in WIlliamson since you left so early in the morning?

PR: uh...I ate at the drug store. Hurley's Drug Store. And my dad paid for my lunch.

B: Ok. WHen you say he made...he was making pretty good money working for the union do you know how much he made?

PR: No.

B: Know how much they paid him?

PR: No.

B: But it was enough to help you during...

PR: Oh yes.

B: What uh...professional promotions did you got through to finally to become what you are now as vice president of the bank?

PR: Well I'm not even sure what year I was uh...made a vice president. It's been many years ago. And uh...I've also been the secretary of the board uh...several years. But as far as the date I don't have any idea. And uh...I don't really know how it came about other than being here for years I suppose.

B: Ok. How old were you when you married?

PR: Twenty-four.

B: Was your husband a local boy?

PR: U-hum.

B: So you married not long after the war?

PR: right.

B: In 1946.

PR: He was in...he was in the Air Force. And uh...we in fact we went to high school we were in the same class we never dated and then we started writing in uh...when he was in service and uh...in fact he was out next door neighbor. And uh...then we dated for about a year after he came out of service and then got married.

B: Where had he served?

PR: He was in England and France, Belgium. He was uh...I think he was staff sergeant. I think they had staff sergeant at that time. He was a football, basketball star in high school.

B: When you were in high school here in this area, did you play teams from say from Williamson uh...in sports is that...

PR: U-hum...u-hum. In fact the uh...I suppose we had the biggest gym and when I was uh...the last two or three years I was in high school the uh...yearly basketball tournament....county basketball tournament was held in Matewan.

B: At this time the school system was segregated? Correct.

PR: U-hum.

B: Did the uh...white teams in the area given such a small tight geographic area that the Tug Valley seems to be did they white schools ever participate sports against that black schools or was it white...

PR: No it was white. Of course they played like uh...Welch and Norfolk and Iaeger and those teams. They got outside the county.

B: Ok. U...what about the social life in this little town when you were growing up? What did teenagers do for fun when you were a teenager?

PR: Of course I lived at Meador when I was a teenager.

B: Oh that's right.

PR: And uh..we...what we did we had a good group of boys and girls and uh...we had...we played soft ball we had uh...different other games that we played. We also on the creek we built a swimming pool. Which at that time was a real...we could have a six foot deep. And uh..we...our little community of Meador we uh..all worked together and of course I'm sure you don't know about a swimming...uh...that type of swimming pool but when it rained...when it rained real hard and a lot of mud and debris washed down the creek, course it was a lot cleaner back then. We would have to have a couple of boards that we could take those boards out and let the...let the swimming pool uh...empty the swimming pool more or less. And if we didn't then all that mud would uh...end up in out...the uh...the deeper part of out pool. So uh...and we had a I mean naturally it was a tree I suppose that we had cut and that was out more or less our diving board. And uh...we just...it was just a good little community and the...everybody worked together and we just had a nice...nice... that was one of the things that we did for recreation.

B: So it was more or less you all created a swimming hole?

PR: Right.

B: What people would have called, use to call a swimming hole?

PR: U-hum. But it was uh...I'd say it was six foot deep the deepest part. And of course we didn't' have the uh...mining in that area at the time and it was much cleaner and uh...

B: Did you all ever travel to Matewan to the theater?

PR: Oh yes uh-huh. We used to in fact my uncle uh...had a car and he would bring us down. Of course he always enjoyed the uh...western cereal that was on Saturday night. And we would uh...we would I think Randolph Scott and some of those movie stars that were in...in the cereals and they would last for I guess eight or ten weeks. But that was mostly the time that..about the only time that we did get to go to the movies was on Saturday...Saturday night.

B: U...you were a teenager and what they call now the big band error and in her interview Gerry Reams mentioned that actually some quite big name bands came through this area and played at dances at the various large hotels. Do you remember hearing about that?

PR: Now I don't remember...actually the hotel was before my time. It was a drug store when I remember but uh...at Red Jacket uh...they use to have I suppose it was a community building and I know that some of the bigger bands would...they would have a dance on Saturday night and some of the bigger bands would play...not real often occasionally there would be. I can't remember the ones but I know I went to a few dances. And uh...it was in the community building there.

B: Ok. Uh...lets see What do you remember about the various floods? Were you...I'd say probably officer in the bank by the time the 1977 flood. How did that effect uh...well the records and as vital part of the community as a bank would be, how did that flood effect the bank?

PR: Well of course the uh...the water was to the ceiling. Downstairs at that point we had one floor and uh...we thought we try we had no idea it was going to get as big as it was. And of course at that point our vault safe...where we have out safe deposit boxes was there. And uh...we came in the next morning after when we could get in after the flood and uh...the records that we had that were on a desk and things like that they were just all over the place. And uh...so we started...we started working on that and of course we immediately got uh...two uh...trailers actually that we that were offices. One at North Matewan and one at Hatfield Bottom. And then uh...some of the people worked as offices. I was one of the fortunate and being down stairs cleaning up and we walked the railroad track. And of course water was off lights wer off and everything. And uh...we got in there and saved all the records that we could and I think that we only had one note that we did not find. And uh...we just...we just had to go through everything. And I know the uh...we had at that time we had uh...safe keeping uh...envelopes for different people that they just brought it in they'd say put this in your safe keeping vault. So I took all those home. All those records and lot of them had bonds and different things and I spread them...we were building out family room at that point. And I spread them in that order all and for days and days I helped dry those out and of course we had Dan Deaton was out President at the time and uh...the employees took a lot of the things up there to his house in the yard and dried those records out. And we had uh...board minutes form the time the bank started. And I took those home and spread those out and we saved all those. And the people came in we notified people to come in and even before while we were still with mud to come in and get their contents of their safe deposit box and take it home and dry it out. And uh..so we uh...we worked in fact we had somebody here most of the time. All day long in to late evening and we had a lot of corporation from the uh...Charleston National Back and different banks who were not in the flood helped us. And we didn't we were only probably I'm not sure how many days but just a few day were we out of business. And even then we supplied our customers from like Montgomery Super Market would change by going to Giber...uh...Gilbert Bank and Trust in Gilbert and getting uh...currency and coins whatever they needed.

B: Did the uh...how much of a financial loss did the bank suffer? Was there any financial loss?

PR: Well I don't uh...I don't...other than the cost of clean up and the cost of buying new equipment and course at that time we did not have our computer equipment it was more or less adding machines and those types of things.

B: So hopefully no financial records of great importance were lost completely?

PR: No...to my knowledge...other than that one note and we knew who the note was. That was the only thing that we did not...and it was very small note.

B: Ok. How did the uh...how did the shock of the flood effect... what changes, did the bank make any changes in it's manner of operation as far as record keeping or...

PR: Well we built the second story. That uh..we started that as soon as we could. Maybe a couple of years after the flood and uh...at that time uh...I suppose computer banking was uh...taking hold and uh...that...I guess we started that about the same time.

B: Ok. I suppose one more question and I can let you go and then if we think of something else we can perhaps get back together before I leave, is how did you come to be involved in what has now become the Matewan Development Center?

PR: Uh...I'm not sure it was probably about 81 or 82 uh...Dan Moore I think it was his idea and of course working with the Rotary Club started Magnolia Improvements. And uh...that was had the members of that to Board were from various businesses in town and uh...I was one of the people from here chosen to represent the bank and uh...we had uh...fact we were instrumental in getting all the shrubbery and uh...more or less doing the uh...beautification work in Matewan. And uh...we had uh...different activities during the years such as a Christmas lighting contest and things like that. And uh...then we of course that was funded at that point uh...only the Matewan National Bank and then from there uh...we of course we started...we got the people from FUND to come in, Magnolia Improvements did and uh...that was also funded by I'd say a hundred percent by the bank. And then from there they formed a Matewan Development and as a representative of Magnolia Improvements I suppose I was chosen to be a part of Matewan Development and I have been secretary to Magnolia Improvements from the onset. And uh...then I've worked with Matewan Development and I it's more or less as a representative of the Matewan National Bank. Dan Moore was uh...a member of Magnolia Improvements up at uh...the onset but now he is...he is not a member of it. I more or less represent the bank. B: When they announced or more or when it was discussed that an oral history project would be started uh...what did you see? How did you perceive that as being uh...was it an instrument of helping Matewan or what were your...what was your reaction to the idea of an oral history project?

PR: Well I felt like it would in tourism we need to find outa little bit about things that happened in the past. And I felt like it was actually late in coming it should have been many years ago we would of had a lot more good stories but uh...I felt like that that was the only way we were gonna find out actually the history and the origin of these...some of these things that has happened in our area.

B: Was the history of say especially the coal mining wars, that period that period of what people see as a period of violence was that something that was hidden in this area? Was that something that people could not talk about?

PR: Yes uh...in fact I'm real sorry that I did not discuss it more with my dad. Because I did not realize the important part he played in that...the original problems that the miners had. And I guess he was like most of the other people he's just a little reluctant to discuss it. And uh..in fact he talked more and that was not a whole lot once he moved to Florida when he retired he moved to Florida and he come back once or twice a year and visit and stay at my house. And uh...Lon Savage tried to get in touch with him they tried to get together which they never did do. But uh...that just that he didn't' really talk about it that much. And my mother like I said she didn't'...she didn't' know a whole lot about it because she couldn't...she didn't speak English and uh...but uh...I'm sorry that I did not find out more about it. And I guess that uh...it's just kind of uh...from uh...the older people not wanting to discuss it probably is the reason and like they say it's not even in the history books or anything...

B: Right..

PR: And uh...I don't know why it was a historical happening I don't know really why they didn't want to discuss it.

B: Ok. What then...and this will be my last question I promise uh...as I don't know if you managed to hear the radio show that John and I were on most recently but in his interviews especially he's been interviewing more men than I have your father has...has come out to be almost a mythical figure especially to some of these men and we're very curious to find out to flush out a personal side of this story what kind of personality these men have. What stands out in your memory about your father's personality. Particularly as a younger man that you remember?

PR: Uh...well one of the things that I remember in uh..and I've thought during this recent strike uh...daddy an uh...can't remember what...he was president of the   ___ coal association and he and my dad were very good friends and they could sit down and discuss the problems between management and labor and uh...he seemed to of course he could uh...he could make a real good speech and he seemed to keep his cool more or less in discussing problems between the united mine workers and the coal companies and uh...in that that he could be friends with the president of the Patunimus coal association and not what you say sell out the union. I though that was one of his a plus on his side because I'm side that it helped when they did have problems that if he could sit down and sensibly talk to management and that was that helped the miners in a sense.

B: Ok...how did...

PR: Of course my dad and mother even though they divorced they remained friends. And uh...my mother never uh...some of the problems that they had...now my mother never discussed those with us uh...they were...they were friends even all over the years. Even though they divorced he still...they still were friends. And that of course made it a lot better for the children and having them a more rounded view of dad and not uh...you know not being...feeling that he was terrible because they divorced.

B: Do you think uh...perhaps it was his activity that took him away was one of the factors? PR: Yes uh...of course my mother always did uh...when somebody would blame him for their divorce she would say "well if I had gone to Detroit with him"...he wanted her to go but she felt like the city was not the place for uh...six children to be uh...growing up and she just felt I suppose she felt more secure being here where we lived near my grandparents and she just felt more secure being here than going with him and she said many times that maybe if I had gone with him we would you know we would still be together. B: Ok. What kind of uh...what kind of person was he? It's hard to remember sometimes but emotionally was he a uh...uh...kind of a low key kind of character or was he a very outgoing...

PR: Now he was a low key. Mean uh...of course you knew he was around as far as in meetings and things like that but uh...of course he was a school teacher uh..he went to what they call normal school in Delbarton and when he first came...when they first came back from uh...when he came back from uh...the war he taught school. And uh...he can make a real good speech very interesting and uh...he just had more or less a way with words and uh...he could uh...people respected his opinions.

B: Do you know what he taught or how long he taught?

PR: Uh...no I'd say he probably taught a couple of years but I'm not...it was in a grade school back there where they would have maybe three or four grade one teacher would teach several grades. In fact that's the way it was when I...when I went to school at Meador. We had a couple of teachers and maybe we'd have three class uh..different classes in on one room.

B: Ok. I suppose what I'm getting at when I asking questions about his personality is Lon Savage has brought up the idea of the Wild West and you get images of Gary Cooper types and other type of characters and we're just trying to see what other kinds personalities these other men had. What attitudes they had toward violence or what attitudes they had toward uh...the law basically. Do you know anything about how your father looked at violence or...

PR: No of course he was a city police or he was uh...had some type of police job at one time or another because of back when they had uh...moonshine steel and uh...he would uh...go and I know he would bring back these uh...copper kettles that they made the moonshine it. And brown sugar and things that he would compensate an duh...but I don't know whether he was just worked for the town or he...that was when we lived here and I'm not really sure what his...actually it was a county or a town position.

B: I'm not sure if I've ask you this yet before do you know why he was in town the day of the massacre? Did you ever...

PR: No. I don't know.

B: Well thank you for your time today and I know you've had visitors from out of town so I appreciate the time you've taken out to talk to me today. And perhaps we can get back together again.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection