Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Howard Radford Interview

John Hennen: Sound check on microphone one, narrator's microphone. June 27th, 1989. Sound check on mike two, interviewer's microphone. This is John Hennen for the Matewan Development Center. It's Tuesday morning, June 27th, 1989. I'm preparing to conduct an oral history interview with Harold Radford in the office of the Matewan Development Center. It is approximately 11 a.m.

J: Howard, if you'd tell me uh...your full name and when and where you were born and something about your parents.

Harold Radford: I was borned in War Eagle, West Virginia the year 1907, September the fifth.

J: What were your parents name?

HR: Uh...Henry and Ida Ra...Ida West Radford.

J: And where were they from?

HR: My mother was from uh...           ________, Kentucky, my father was from uh...oh a... Carroll County, Virginia.

J: Virginia?

HR: Hm-um.

J: What was your mothers' maiden name?

HR: Ida. Ida West.

J: West, okay. Uh...Do you have any brothers and sisters?

HR: I have one brother living.

J: How about otherwise, was there more in the family?

HR: I have uh... four sisters living.

J: Are you older or younger?

HR: I'm the... I'm the fourth child.

J: Okay. And did you grow up then in that area, War Eagle?

HR: Yes sir.

J: Okay. What did your father do for a living?

HR: He was uh...outside stable foreman, taking care of the mules and at that time you see they had mules and ponies in the coal mines. And he was stable supervisor and taking care of the mules and ponies and stuff like that.

J: What company did he work for?

HR: War Eagle Coal Company.

J: Was that a pretty big outfit?

HR: No...No they came there in 1902.

J: Did you all live in uh...private housing or company housing?

HR: No, company housing. Company shacks.

J: What was the...Do you remember much about that uh... that housing about what size it was?

HR: Yeah.

J: Tell me about it.

HR: Five room house, no facilities. Didn't have no electricity until 1919.

J: Were you still living there at that time?

HR: Oh yeah. We had uh... the uh... Kentucky West Virginia power line came through there in 1919. And uh... we got a little drop lights. One drop light in each room. Paid twenty-five cents a month for it. And the porch light they furnished us free. Mom and dad had a five room house, had eleven children, six girls and five boys. And raised them all there in that in a uh... well in that house.

J: When you paid that electrical bill, did you pay it to the company or ... to the electrical?

HR: Payroll.

J: Took it out of the payroll?

HR: Yeah.

J: Did your father get paid in script or cash?

HR: Well, he got $75 a month at that time and uh...we's uh...that's was taking everything we had to live on, you know. Very seldom got any money on the payroll. You see we got paid the 15th and 30th.

J: Who was in charge of running the house, was that your mother's job?

HR: Mother, my mother that running the house. My two older sisters helped her.

J: How did they manage to run a household for thirteen people?

HR: Well, we raised a garden, growing uh... we's growing vegetables. We had our own pigs, our own chickens, an own livestock. We picked blackberries and huckleberries and gooseberries, and all the berries. We had a lot of berries uh ah... in this country at that time up until the late uh...'40's. Then the strip mines come in tore it all up'n all an everything gone when they were.

J: So after the advent of the strip mines the berries disappeared?

HR: Well, yeah. Since strip mines tore it up an... and when they started stripping an washing the soil off it killed all our fruit and everything else. Wild fruit, like elderberries, gooseberries, and uh... all the a big box grapes. We had a lot of grapes, you know. Wild grapes, we picked them and a... make jelly out of 'em. An... a gooseberries, huckleberries, blackberries, raspberries, that's how we lived. Not only us, but everybody else. Everybody back those days was uh... uh... equal. One didn't have a damn a bit of more then the other un had.           ________ you know what I mean? Most everybody had big families. Went to little uh... two room schools.

J: Yeah, where was uh... where was your school?

HR: In War Eagle Holler. I started school when I's five years old. I finished the eighth grade when I was thirteen years old. Then started to work in the mines when I was fourteen years old.

J: Were you in the same school that whole time?

HR: Yessir.

J: Okay.

HR: I'd taken the eighth grade test, and I passed the test. Then I could've went to uh... school in the months of uh... May and June, July if I'd had the money to pay schoolteacher. And uh... I coulda taught the primary schools before I'd even graduated high school. See all of our teachers back in those days, ninety per cent of 'em was eighth grade students. They started teaching.

J: The eighth grade students taught the younger kids?

HR: Yes sir. And uh... then they teach one year and then they go to Athens for uh... summer school, you see, and teach again. Our teachers never would go to high school, wasn't no high school handy.

J: Was Athens, was that wh... was that where a normal school was, is that what it was called at that time?

HR: Athens was college.

J: Okay, Concord I guess?

HR: Concord's right.

J: So these, these uh... eighth grade students were your teachers, were they still living with their families at home?

HR: Some were and some wasn't. See some... uh... ones we had was from up in uh... Worth County up on the little Kanawha River around Linsmith. They was country girls raised on the farm. Dupews.

J: That was their name?

HR: Dupews, hmm hm.

J: And did they board then with families from War Eagle?

HR: Yes, yes, they boarded with my mother and other people.

J: And you went to work in the mines when did you say?

HR: I was fourteen years old.

J: Fourteen, okay, and was that with War Eagle Coal Company?

HR: Yes sir.

J: What was your first job?

HR: Tramping.

J: Describe that to me.

HR: Well, tramping ehh... uh... was for ventilation purposes for the mule drivers. See, uh...the people worked in the mines had to shut... shut the ventilation doors, keep the doors opened and closed for ventilation purposes, you know what I mean? Just like opening that door there, see, if you want in, I'll open the door for you. You want out, I open the door for you.

J: How long did you uh... how long were you a trapper?

HR: Oh, I was a trapper about three or four months then I went to another section of the mines, which I run the motor. Electric motor. You had electric in, that was nineteen and twenty-three. I started the mines in twenty-two.

J: Were the mines there in War Eagle uh... affected by the strike in '20 and '21?

HR: Yessir.

J: What... what went on then?

HR: Well, just everybody come out of the mines and uh... the Union men blew up one of the uh... burned it down the... one of the government facilities were they dumped the coal there on top of the mountain. Blowed a ten ton mo... uh... thirteen ton motor up... blowed it up. Dynamite. Then went on around the mountain round a big magazine round there made out of native rock. And they'd taken a T-rail off the switch latch and knocked a hole in this eighteen inch rocks, and got in the magazine. And the magazine was full of keg powder and forty and fifty... and sixty foot dynamite. They got in there, they fixed them a shop in the magazine, and these fuse uh... had fifty rolls. Well, a hundred foot fuse, but they had fifty foot rolls. Two of them, they strung er... they put up a hill, and they got the other fifty foot strung it up the hill. Instead of, when they a..., instead of splicing the fuse like this, they spliced it like that. They lit the other end and then left to run. And when it burned down to that fifty foot, it didn't ignite. That's how come it didn't blow the magazine up.

J: This magazine, was that, did it belong to the coal company?

HR: Yessir.

J: So the dynamite was used for mining purposes?

HR: Right. The powder was used for uh... shooting coal purposes. Dynamite was used to blast rock with. That's when they had the strike and then uh... they passed marshall [sic] law. On account of the Union. Then the uh... our president, he sent in soldiers to Matewan, Mingo County, all of Mingo County. And my mother kept eleven.

J: The soldiers boarded...?

HR: She... she fed 'em, but they had a place to sleep to protect the company property.

J: How long were they here?

HR: They was here about uh... six months. Most of our soldiers came out of the uh... up North, Maine and New Hampshire. That was where they was from.

J: So this was when uh... the period of what they called the March?

HR: In '21. Twenty and twenty-one.

J: So how did that finally end?

HR: Well, they finally uh... just uh...after this massacre and all this down here they and over in Boone County and Logan County and Boone County they had a whole lot of shooting over there in Logan...why ended they just give up and went back to work nun-union which they wudn't union to begin with. They were striking for Union.

J: So the Union, more or less, didn't exist 'til the mid '30's then, I guess?

HR: Yeah, well, well, in the '30's. We first had a right to the Union was in 1933. Almost 1933, that's when they first organized the Union. People signed up on the Union then under Franklin D. Roosevelt's Administration. He gave everybody, all the people a right to belong to any Union they chose. You know what I mean? Coal Miner, carpenter, or for whatever it is. And that's how the Union got started.

J: We'll uh... backtrack just a little bit, this might be off the track some but uh... tell me what you remember hearing about this big payroll robbery uh... was that 1914, the Glen Allen robbery? What was that all about?

HR: August 15, 1914

J: Okay, what happened?

HR: Well, the Glen Alum Coal Company is right near War Eagle, and back in those days the payrolls came out of, for Glen Alum, came out of Bluefield, right now it's the Bank of Bluefield, a commercial uh... bank up there. And so they'd send this payroll uh... in to the bank, you see, the bank would make up a payroll, like if it was uh... $10,422.14, that's what'd be in the payroll, for the whole payroll. Well, on this particular day, see they paid off on the, now on the 15th and 30th on Fridays. It had to be on a Friday. Uh... when the pay off for a Saturday, but uh... the a... payroll come in on a Friday. So Doc           ________, Schiller, and... I forget the other boy's name, he was payroll clerk. They came down the holler on a little motor car.

J: Who was the second one you mentioned? Schuller?

HR: Schiller. He was an electrician.

J: Okay.

HR: He ran a motor car for this company, and Doc           ________, he was a company doctor. And I forget the name of the boy the payroll clerk. They came down to meet the train. Train usually got in about 11:15 or 11:30 at Glen Alum, mouth of Glen Alum Station, which is three miles and a half up a holler. They got the payroll loaded it and and...got on the motor car turned up the holler. Got about halfway up there there's a little trustle (trestle) you had to cross, you know, where the creek run under, of course, there's three or four of 'em. And these Italians had laid a cross-tie right near the end of the trustle, so when they got off to move the tie, they killed all three of 'em.

J: They killed the payroll uh... officers?

HR: And took the payroll.

J: How many uh...?

HR: Four.

J: Four robbers?

HR: Four Italians. They went up crossed the mountain into Ben Creek, they crossed over the mountain to Ben Creek in the Spring Forks. See this, Ben Creek has got two hollers, the left fork of Ben Creek, the right fork of Ben Creek, and that here's Spring Fork, tha... that's a road go all the way to Gilbert. Go up Spring Fork, right in the head of it, and that's where everybody tracked 'em. And they...

J: Did they have a payees chasing them by this time?

HR: Oh yeah. Yeah, they had a... uh... it was on a Friday afternoon. Well they chased 'em, and got the bloodhounds out of Welch. This fellow, Belcher, had the bloodhounds tied to him. Well, they killed him, the Italians did, and they killed two more, but I forgot their names, in the hills, the Italians did. Well, they a...when they found the Itali... wha... the time they were shooting at 'em, the Italians were over in a sinkhole behind a big chestnut log. And the Italians throwed... they would throw dynamite, I mean, our people would throw dynamite in on 'em, see what I mean. They'd pick up the dynamite and throw it back at 'em before it went off. And they killed three of 'em on Saturday night. They stayed in the woods there at the head of Spring Fork. Uh... Sunday morning about four o'clock, just the break of daylight, 'tween four and five o'clock, one Italian stuck his head up 'n crowed like a rooster, they shot him and killed him. They brought him out of the mountains uh... tied a grapevine around his neck, drug him outa the mountains. Put him in a sled, a wooden sled and hauled him down to the mouth of the holler and put him in a wagon and like butchered hogs, you know, and haul him down to Wharncliffe in a wagon, and finally they put a sheet around him and rolled him up on a train and sent him to Williamson to a.. a.. a funeral home down in here at Williamson a... oh... I forget the name of that a... there, and they're still down there. They taken pictures of them, sit 'em up in a casket, tied 'em in a casket, and took a picture of all of 'em standing up. I had the pictures, let a friend of mine have 'em down in North Carolina and never did get 'em back. And where they buried her at I don't know.

J: This whole thing took about two days eh... two or three days?

HR: Well, it took from Friday afternoon until Sunday morning.

J: Why in the world do you think this guy crowed like a rooster?

HR: Well, you see, at that time, we had a lot of Italians come over in this country, and they worked in the coal mines, and Glen Alum had more Italians than we had up the holler working.

J: More Italians than what?

HR: Oh, yeah, this           ________ up here, her mother, and her mothers brother was payroll clerk at Glem Alum at that time, but he wasn't in the mess, and she had another brother was           ________ they always thought he helped           ________ whether he did or not I don't know.

J: How did the Italians and a... locals get along in the mines?

HR: Fine. They got along good. But they never did know where these come from, nobody didn't know anything about 'em, if they did they kept it a secret. Nobody claimed the bodies.

J: Who organized the possee to go after these guys?

HR: Uh... our sheriff, and people went on their own.

J: Was Greenway Hatfield the sheriff?

HR: Be... I believe he was. Greenway Hatfield at that time lived down there at Hatfield Bottom.

J: Did you know him?

HR: Oh yeah.

J: What sort of a man was he? I've heard something about him.

HR: They was nice people. All I can say about him they were republicans, that's all I can say 'bout 'em.

J: They were Republicans?

HR: Yeah.

J: At that time, was, of course now and for the last couple of generations the Democrats have been the big party here. At that time was Republican the... the main party here?

HR: Main party.

J: Is that right?

HR: Main party. But I was born a real Democrats, my daddy was a Democrat, and my mother, when she married my daddy, she was one of them Martin County Republicans.

J: Martin County Republican? What's that mean?

HR: That's... that's where she was born and raised at Peach Orchard (?)

J: Yeah. Did Greenway Hatfield, would you consider him kind of a political boss in the county at that time?

HR: Hmmmhm, at that time, but wasn't bad as Johnny Owens though.

J: (Laughter) About the same or not as bad?

HR: About the same. You know, back those days, 'Publican party run it, and every businessman was uh... coal operators. See we didn't have any big coal operators in this part of the country. Everything was almost individually like War Eagle Coal Company, an' just like a bunch of people uh... put a little bit of money in organize coal company, which is Glen Alum, War Eagle, Mogue (?), Panther,           ________, Little War Creek, all up... McDowell County, and all down Mingo County, they was uh... War Eagle was a last coal mine in McDow... uh... Mingo County and that's the end of it. And on down this way, down up here at Lynn and up here at Poplar Creek at Majestic, course that's 'n Kentucky coming over from West Virginia side ? And a... all the coal mines up in uh... uh..., one here t'had Red Jacket, we had one right here, Stony Mountain Camp, Stony Mountain. That's where alot of this trouble was in uh... '21, in '20, and on down uh... to uh... uh... Sprigg, we had a mine there at Sprigg. Had two mine been across the Kentucky side, there at the a..., they had a mine there what they called White Star, right there where the old power plant used to be at Sprigg.

J: This at Sprigg?

HR: You know where the golf course is? Mine sat right there. Rig... rig... when you cross that railroad crossing on this side coming up where the uh... power plant, I mean the power plant is now sitting there. Wh... we had a power plant right there, made the power. That's the first power plant we've had 'n 'n... in southern part of West Virginia down this way.

J: Now did, where did this plant supply power to?

HR: To the coal mines.

J: Was it owned then by the coal company?

HR: No. No. The plant was owned by Kentucky and West Virginia Power. They fired it by hand. They had big boilers that made steam, and they had the rollers down there.

J: So it was a coal fired uh...

HR: Coal fired boilers.

J: And that went in when?

HR: 1919. Well, they put it in l9l8 and they started running power through the mountains in 1919.

J: Okay. There's another incident I want to ask you about uh... I think Yvonne told me that you remembered this to uh... Police Chief of Matewan was killed in a shootout, was that 1912, 1914, do you recall that? I believe his name was Ackerman.

HR: Naw. I di... I don't remember that.

J: Oh, you don't remember that, okay. I thought... she must have been talking about somebody else. Okay, did you continue to work for War Eagle Coal?

HR: Yessir.

J: How long did you stay with them?

HR: I stayed with them from when I started until nineteen and twenty-four. They gave me a job as uh... assistant mine uh... assistant uh... store manager. I was seventeen years old, and uh... I ran the number...he had two company stores, one down at the mouth of the holler and one up the holler, and I...I ran that... I was manager of that up the holler. Up here store from 1924 'til '26. They paid me a salary of $65 a month, and uh... people don't... what little money they made had to draw it out in script. They didn't draw any money. And I stayed there 'til uh... I went back in the mines in 1926 and stayed there 'til '27, then I moved to Pond Creek area over at the Hardy, Kentucky           ________, he run a mine over at Hardy, and worked there 'til 1930, and left there in '30, went to Stone and stayed there 'til '32.

J: Now in Hardy were you working in a store?

HR: No, coal mines.

J: You were in the mines there?

HR: Coal mines. I stayed there for three years and I went up to Stone in 1930 and stayed 'til '32. Then Fortune laid off 480 people.

J: Fortune Coal Company?

HR: Hmmm hm. Yessir. It belonged to Henry Ford.

J: Oh, yeah?

HR: Henry Ford owned all of it.

J: Did he own a lot of mi... he owned a lot of mines, I reckon?

HR: Yeah, sure did. He owned mines over at Harlan County too, at that time. And I worked there in '32 and got laid off and never did go back. I was making $4.80 a day when I got laid off in '32.

J: Now, was that pretty good money in 1932?

HR: Well, see uh... wh... when I first went there in '27, they paid $6 a day. In '32 a slump come, so cut it down to $4.80.

J: How many days a week would you work?

HR: Five.

J: So you were getting five days a week then...

HR: Five days a week. Paid $10.00 uh... a week for room and board.

J: And you lived in a company boarding house?

HR: Yessir.

J: Did you live in your own private house or did you board with other miners?

HR: I... well, I... at Hardy I boarded with other miners, friends of ours, $10.00 a week. Then I went to Stone, I stayed in the uh... clubhouse, and uh... that's where the office facility and schoolteachers all stayed, they kept very few miners there. They picked their miners that were going to stay there. So we stayed there 'til 1932 and got laid off.

J: How did a miner get picked to live in the clubhouse?

HR: Well, the first place uh... his personality, decency, and neatness. They didn't take anybody in the clubhouse. A coal miner back in those days was classed pretty, you know, wasn't very neat dressed or to.. you had to... you had           ________ wear a coat. Better.

J: Now was this clubhouse also owned by Henry Ford?

HR: Yessir. And operated by Henry Ford. It's own manager, own cooks, own waiters, own housekeepers.

J: About how many people lived there?

HR: There was sixty-two of us lived there at one time.

J: And this, like you said, not all miners, this is different people from the community?

HR: Not many coal miners though.

J: Now did Henry... Did the... did the... Did Henry Ford own the schools also?

HR: No.

J: Hire his own teachers?

HR: No.

J: So they were like county teachers?

HR: County.

J: Okay. But he did allow some of them to live in the... in the club house?

HR: Schools... schools was built by the county on his property. And when the schools uh... if they had to close the school down, the pro...property was still his'n. And now, see, he's sold his property or his estate did to Pocahontas Land Company back in uh... I believe uh... February.

J: February of '30?

HR: This year.

J: Oh, this year? Okay. So his estate held this land until just recently then?

HR: Yeah, his estate, hmmm hm. All the points and holdings, all of Blackberry Creek uh... Pond Creek up there.

J: Okay.

HR: See Pocahontas Land Company they own more uh... land uh... it's got mineral rights on it than any other land holder. They got uh... mineral rights in seventeen different states.

J: Yeah, when did they uh... start operating?

HR: Pocahontas Land Company?

J: Yeah.

HR: In the uh... early ni... eigh... uh... about the middle eighteen hundreds. Eighteen something.

J: So they've been speculating in land, timber rights, coal, for a long time?

HR: Oh yeah. See, they bought... see when they bought all the right a' ways down through from the end of the railroad track, that was back in... about 18, I believe it was 1880... 1880, I believe. Uh... they owned it years before that because they bought it for railroad purposes. They bought it all. They bought all of uh... of Clinch Valley, down that away, these farmers all of the mineral rights of course, a lot of 'em kept their own farm, you know what I'm saying? And up here in uh... Mercer County, all of them mines up there come in first. That was Pocahontas fields years ago. Now they put the railroad down through here, it came down through here in 1892.

J: Now which line is that?

HR: N & W

J: N & W.

HR: Number seven track at that time(?) uh... it had eighty-five and ninety pound steel, didn't have side tracks about ever' seven or eight miles so a train could pass, especially a passenger train. Had steam engines, blue coaches and uh...1914 they started double tracking it. That was seventy-five years ago.

J: Now, were they involved uh... in timber business as well as the coal business?

HR: No, not at that time. Now I never known them be involved in timber business. Now, what they do is they might've sold the timber to uh... people, but they owned the timber.

J: How long did your father stay in the... in the mines?

HR: He wasn't in the mines. He never worked...

J: Oh, that's right. What did he... he was a...

HR: He was tipple foreman.

J: Yeah. He took care of the... he took care of the mules.

HR: And harness maker.

J: How long did he stay with the company then?

HR: Long as he lived.

J: Which was?

HR: Well, the company shut down in nineteen and... closed up in uh... uh... 1940, 1939. Of course, he retired.

J: Now they actually shut down, they weren't bought out by somebody else.

HR: No. No. See, he... he... the company didn't own th... the land and mineral rights to begin with the land, they had it leased. See all this land up through here uh... er... uh... bought it years ago, and uh... then they just lease it. Lease the mineral rights, you know what I mean? Then they went back to the original owner when it went haywire.

J: When did you go to work for Red Jacket Coal?

HR: 1942...July 5, 1942.

J: Was that kind of a boom time for the coal business?

HR: Well, uh... it wasn't uh... the big boom, it was just uh... uh... about a year after the war started. The World War II. I worked at Isaban that was 'fore I come over here.           ________ Isaban.

J: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

HR: I was supervisor at uh... Peter White Coal Company at Isaban. That was in McDowell County and Mingo County.

J: Peter White Coal Company.

HR: Peter White. George did the coffee, operated the War Eagle Coal Company. He bought Peter White in 1939, but he bought Isaban. It was in the hands of a Seabert(?). He bought 8,600 acres and 115 company houses besides the mine equiptment [sic] for $50,000 cash, and paid $16,000 back taxes and back debts, six thousand and that... all that mineral rights. And he died December, I mean November the seventh, nineteen and forty, and Brooks Lawson, Bill Hall were the attorneys, was his attorneys, and Art Persinger was president of the Persinger Supply Company. The old man didn't have no will made, so they stoled it.

J: Who did?

HR: They did. Bill Hall, Brooks Lawson. Bill Hall was his full attorney, Brooks Lawson was uh... kicker. See, when Bill was in Columbus uh... Brooks Lawson would take care of it. Arthur Persinger was married to the president of the Persinger Supply Company. Mr. Coffee(?) owned forty-eight per cent of it. So when he died, they just made him a will of their own and stole it. She never was married. He was a bitch born child.

J: He was a what?

HR: Bastard. His mother had three children out of wedlock. In North Carolina, he was born in uh... down in North Carolina, Callwell County in 1868. He died in 1940. Never was married. He had one whole sister and one whole brother, but his brother died before he did. His brother died in '32 at War Eagle, and his sister died here, I believe she died in nineteen and forty-six. She lived down in North Carolina, Callwell County. And he and his brother walked to Pocahontas in 1888, March 20, 1888 to Pocahontas from Callwell County, North Carolina over to where           ________ blowing rock, and got a job in the coal mines, loading coal.

J: This is Pocahontas County?

HR: No. No. It's Mercer County, but it's in Pocahontas Land Company.

J: Pocahontas land, okay.

HR: Coal company, up where Brownman(?) is. You know where Brownman(?) is?

J: Right.

HR: Brownman(?), Buckeye all up there, where Simmons is. Lee said they're Simmons and worked there, and in uh... eighteen and ninety, eighteen ninety-two, he came down here at Thacker. See Thacker used to be a big outfit. At one time that was supposed to been the county seat of Mingo County.

J: Yeah, I've heard that.

HR: And uh... so he came down here as coal inspector. See, they didn't have any cleaning plants back in those days, uh... for that amount of coal. He came down as coal inspector up here at Lynn, and he stayed up there with uh... uh... Dick Varney's mother. I mean Dick Varney's aunt. And so a... then got in business, they got in with Persinger down here,           ________, and Ed Bishop, and uh... uh... oh... a... uh...           ________, two guys out of Huntington Insurance business, what was their names, I'll think of it in a minute. And they went into Coeburn instead of War Eagle in 1902. Got started there, I'll tell ya..., I'll tell ya the rest of the names in a few minutes.

J: Okay.

HR: Then they stayed up there, 1902 until 1939. Thirty seven years, closed it down. Uh... they operated that at that time with uh... air, had... borders made air compressor made air, and cut the coal with a bunch of machines. And uh... had the air machine uh... pumps at uh... uh... made the... made the ventilation at the mines, had upright motors. They run around like this and run the belts and turned the fans, all air.

J: Was the ventilation pretty good?

HR: No, very poor. Most only thing they had was gravity ventilation, not cold from one side of the mountain to the other. They come in this way. See back in those days they had to shot this black powder, they couldn't they couldn't go in on it, they had to shoot the coal at night, cut           ________ of a night, so all the uh... black powder would be out by morning.

J: So the powder would settle down and you'd go in and clear it out.

HR: Yeah. Charley Commack(?) at that time and uh... was in business with them, and old man Ginger Moore, he was Canadian, and they all went in business at War Eagle. Charley Commack, Ginger Moore, and Harold Moore, his son. They lived at War Eagle at that time. Art... uh... Uncle           ________, he lived at War Eagle at that time. They moved there in 1902, then Uncle Mose left there and moved back to Williamson in 1904. Art Purser, he was born at War Eagle, January 30, 1904. And my sister was born up there January 16th, 1904.

J: Was she born in the uh... house that you lived in?

HR: Yessir.

J: Who came to look after your mother when she was born, did you have a doctor or midwife?

HR: Neighbors, had a doctor. Now I had a midwife when I was born. Juanita Christian, Nita Christian(?). Dr. Emmick was a doctor, he had Glen Alum and War Eagle, he had to ride a horse uh... through the mountains, and uh... so I was born uh... most of the babies born back in those days had midwives.

J: Now Emmick was a company doctor?

HR: Hmmm hm. Doctor Emmick delivered my wife, her mother and father lived in Ben Creek, left fork of Ben Creek, when all of this Italian and uh... the           ________. And my wife was borned over there on Ben Creek uh... she was born June I mean May 12th, 1914. She was only a few months old when this Italian uh... payroll rob-bery. She had twins and Dr. Emmick delivered them twins before he got killed.

J: Did he get killed in an accident?

HR: On that payroll.

J: Oh that's right, you mentioned that already, he was one of the uh... he was the uh...           ________

HR: Supervisor, yeah.

J: When did you get married?

HR: I got married on the third day of February, 1934.

J: Church wedding?

HR: No... Little log cabin(?) in front of a big old log fireplace. What do you mean "church wedding"?

J: Who did the ceremony? Who conducted the ceremony?

HR: W. H. Gibson. Halcy(?) Gibson, Baptist Minister. An old time Baptist Minister.

J: What sect of the Baptist Church was he? Was he Hardshell, Baptist?

HR: No. No. He's a Missionary Baptist.

J: Okay. Can you explain to me some of the distinction between the different Baptist Sects, the Missionary, the Hardshells.

HR: Not to much. Uh... all I can tell you about the difference in 'em, the Hardshell Baptist uh... they believe           ________, the other 'un don't. The Hardshell Baptist uh... they'll preach four or five hours at a funeral, four or five of 'em will. Then when they get to preaching, and uh... shaking hands, and crying, and uh... kissing the dead folks uh..., I mean the dead mans' family, then the one opens it up, opens the church up opens the service up, he'd open it up for about an hour, then the other 'un get up and he'll take about an hour, the other one get up and he'll take about an hour, another one get up and take another hour, forty-five minutes. Then the person opened it up he gets up and close it, and he gets up... up in the pulpit and looks inside the casket, and he gets up and says, "Brother So and So hasn't saved his soul(?), he's going to hell. That's it. That's the way they preach, the way they believe.

J: How's that make the families feel?

HR: I don't know, they... some of them feel like hell, I guess.

J: (laughter) Did you go to church when you were a little kid?

HR: Yessir. Methodist Church, born and reared in the Methodist Church.

J: Did your mother and father go with you?

HR: Yessir.

J: Who were the preachers uh...?

HR: Well,           ________ I can remember him, was Preacher Bailey from up at Wyoming County, around Davey, McDowell County, do you know where Davey is?

J: I've heard of it.

HR: Well, it's between Welch and Iaeger. And he was a preacher and he come down every other Sunday then we had a Preacher Perkins, he was a preacher at Iaeger, he come down on the other Sundays he couldn't come down. And we children on Sunday morning, Saturday night we'd taken our bath and put on clean clothes, underclothes. Next morning we got up, we'd eat breakfast, we'd dress, went to Sunday School, Church. We weren't allowed to play no marbles on Sunday, all we had to do on Sunday, my mother had to parlor, she had an organ, my sister played the organ, and mom played the organ, and all we did... have dinner about one o'clock, and the kids would com...would come in and all of us sit there in the parlor on a Sunday, and my sister uh... play the piano, and we all sing, and that's the way it had to be.

J: What did you sing, hymns?

HR: Sing hymns, you better believe it. It wasn't no rock songs. Yessir, now I used to sing when I was a kid a-coming up. I sang bass all of the time. Of course, I had a coarse voice, you know. And my sister, sh.. still living, she still plays the organ. She's 85. She'll be 86. I got a sister 83.

J: Do they live around here?

HR: I got three sisters at Gilbert and one in Florida.

J: Now you said you couldn't play any marbles on Sunday?

HR: No. No.

J: Was that a big thing to do the rest of the week?

HR: You could play marbles if I wasn't in the cornfield working or going to school.

J: Where did you get your marbles? Did you buy them? Or...

HR: Oh yeah, buy 'em, company store had 'em.

J: Company store?

HR: Yeah. That's all I know is shooting marbles and play ball, work in the cornfield.

J: Played baseball?

HR: Yeah.

J: Where did you play ball at?

HR: In a spot a lot bigger than this.

J: Did you ever play in a river bed when it was down?

HR:           ________ a river bed, Tug River.

J: So you'd just fine any level place you could and play ball? How did you buy your equipment, did Company Store sell that kind of equipment too?

HR: Yeah, they'd sell balls 'n bats. Get a ball or get a good baseball for fifty cents, ball gloves, most of the time we order 'em out of Sears and Roebuck catalogue. We had no cars, all we had a horse to ride, a pony, a mule, a black mule, somethin' like that.

J: I assume that's how the preachers got around too?

HR: They rode a train.

J: Oh, they did?

HR: Hmmm hm, some of them ride through the mountains too. See we never had no Church of God preacher around here, in this part of the country. It originated from Cleveland, Tennessee, and they called it "holy rollers". And they come in there, and they called "holy rollers". They'd get up and they'd preach and shout, they fall in the floor, kick up there heels, and it was terrible.

J: When did they come into this area?

HR: In a... about 1922 or '23, around in the twenties, early twenties. And a... the preacher come from over here at Delbarton. He come here. I don't know where he come from, but he come here and revitalized this uh... called Church of God. And he done a lot of good work in this country. And put Church of God, Assembly of God, and a... back where it belong. Now the "holy rollers" were here first.

J: Now did the "holy rollers" actually have a regular preacher?

HR: Yeah. They'd come in 'n take two or three, uh... take a man's wife and leave           ________, and go on.

J: Do what now?

HR: They'd take a man's wife and leave and go on.

J: Who? The preacher?

HR: Yeah.

J: Uh huh.

HR: Preacher Luther up here at War Eagle come in about that time. He took a man's wife and left. She went to church one night, on Saturday night, and I met him coming down the road on Sunday morning, and I said, "Tom, where you going?" He said uh..."Uh... I'm hunting for Phoebe." And I said, "What happened?" He said, "She went to church last night, and she ain't come home yet."

J: So she took off with the preacher?

HR: Yeah.

J: Did you go to revival meetings?

HR: Oh yeah. Not to that. Methodist.

J: Methodist Revival. How would that... would that be held at a... a local church or would you have tent revivals?

HR: No, didn't have no church, it'd be the schoolhouse.

J: Is that where the church meetings were normally held?

HR: Yessir.

J: Schoolhouse? And that's were you had revivals?

HR: Yessir.

J: Tell me something about uh... how long would those go on, a week at a time, two weeks?

HR: A week at a time.

J: Different preachers every night?

HR: No, same preacher, but the most of 'em was this "holy roller" preachers. But now uh... the Methodist uh... they'd hold around about uh... twice a year. But they didn't preach like the "holiness". Eh, the "holy rollers" they'd... they'd took back down seats and tie 'em on top of the seats, jump over the top of the seats. One got up there one time, he had such... much religion, a great big guy. We'd go down just to see them carry on, and back in those days they had in those schoolhouses and uh... so they weren't in... go up there in the schoolhouse. They'd tear up so much. So they had a company store was empty ep... this got rid of it. So they let 'em uh... the "holy rollers" have that building to have service in. A big old pot stove, belly pot stove in that thing. He... oh he got religion one night and hu... and I can hug that stove, won't burn me.

J: This the big guy you were talking about?

HR: Yeah. He burn him too. You ever read in the paper about these "holy rollers" they uh... uh... raising uh... about handling these rattlesnakes and copperheads? Same kind.

J: Didn't they ever do that in the services that you saw?

HR: Yeah. Well, up here at War Eagle.

J: Did you ever see anybody get bit?

HR: Yeah.

J: Now, where would this have been?

HR: Uh... what?

J: What year would this... HR: That was in the twenties, late twenties.

J: So they had snake handling church back up in there?

HR: Yeah, in the twenties. They get that faith, they... they... they could try anything once.

J: Did it bother them at all that you would come in just to observe or did they figure you were part of the church?

HR: No, uh... see back in those days... bunch of kids, you had a bunch of young kids, they wanted to see what was going on, they wasn't... didn't uh... interested in religion.

J: I wond... I had wondered about... I wondered if there had been any snake handling churches.

HR: Oh yeah. They try anything once.

J: How did the rest of the community of War Eagle feel about that, the snake handling churches?

HR: Well, most people uh... didn't have anything to do with 'em, it's the... really it was the uh... mostly the uneducated people. You understand? Sh..., one time we had more uneducated people in this part of the country ever known. And my papa, he co... he could just barely read and write his own name. He was born in 1873 in the state of Virginia, Carroll County Virginia, and he come here in 1894 to Dingess.

J: When you went to school at War Eagle, did it have one teacher teach all the kids?

HR: It had two.

J: Two teachers. Okay.

HR: One teacher taught for the little ones at the third grade, they had to uh... you know... what they call uh... they called it kindnergarden [sic] now you know. When they started school when they was five years old. I started when I was five. She taught the third grade, two third grades, and this other teacher, she taught fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth. When I finished school we had seven subjects.

J: What were they, do you remember all of them?

HR: Well...

J: Let's hear 'em.

HR: Fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and the eighth grade, alright we had civics, we had history, we had uh American history, and the state history, and uh... mythology.

J: Mythology?

HR: Yeah, I had... I had seven subjects.

J: Did they teach you writing?

HR: Yessir. Penmanship, and that's the nearest thing I've uh... I did... I... I passed everything but handwriting.

J: Why didn't you pass that?

HR: Well, I was a person I... wasn't too fast you see. Now I can write pretty good handwriting if I take it s..slow. Two things in my a... going to school that I was very bad on spelling and writing.

J: Did they teach you that method where you had to keep your arm off the...

HR: Oh yeah. Yessir, like this, you see. See that finger's cut off. See you done it like this with your little finger. Your little finger was the leader, like this, you see, and you... you did it like this. You didn't do it like this now, with your fingers, like that. You had to do it like this.

J: And keep your elbow off the a...

HR: Yessir.

J: off the table.

HR: Yessir. Y... your little finger was the leader.

J: Seems like that would make your hand tired or your arm.

HR: I know, but it didn't. I got some friends of mine that's about my age went to school, they went to school at Gilbert Creek. You talk about handwrite. They got the prettiest handwrite you've ever seen in your life. They're Cline boys. Tony Cline, Roy Cline and all of 'em th... th... they got a handwrite. And my wife's people, Tolers', had one of the prettiest handwrites you've ever seen. Some of them went to the third grade, some of them went to the fifth. Some of them finished the eighth grade, but the Cline boys, they went to Concord College and made schoolteachers. They were farm boys up in Gilbert Creek. See we had..we had school back in those days. The parents didn't run the schools, teachers run it. They'd bust our ass and that was it. You go home and tell it, you'd get it busted again. Now a days the parent'll go'n... the parent goes down whup the school teacher.

J: What did they whip you with, did they have uh...

HR: Paddle.

J: Switch? Oh, paddle.

HR: Oh yeah, paddle... paddle the little ones and we'd have to go... go cut our own damn switch about four or five foot long and we didn't sass the teacher, we said yessir and no sir. My daddy uh... I sassed uh... Mr. Coffee(?) one time, the man that owned the place up there. I was a pretty good size boy. I sassed him an' my daddy s... hit me backhanded and I ain't ever sassed nobody to this day and I'm 81 years old.

J: What sort of things would you have to do in school in order to get paddled or switched?

HR: Well, being mischievous, you know. Fighting on the school grounds, somethin' like that. Had outside toilets. Didn't have no water facilities, uh... had to carry water from a hand well. Everybody had to drink out of the same bucket. Most of the kids already had a drinkin' cup, th... th... drinking cup.

J: Was this something you'd do everyday before school started, carry some water in.

HR: No. I was uh... my brother and me were janitors at school there for several years 'til four or five years. When we first started to school, we'd sweep the school house and build fires in the winter time. Got $8 a month, got $4 a month apiece. Build a fire an... sweep the schoolhouse, clean the windows.

J: Did you live close to the school?

HR: Oh, I lived about as far as from here to the bank. It was up on a hill and we lived down on the bottom. About as far as from here to the bank. And we didn't sass no schoolteacher. We didn't sass our parents either. We didn't sass nobody.

J: If you did you'd pay for it.

HR: You better believe it quick.

J: Howard, I'm interested in how people celebrated holidays when you were a kid, like Christmas or Halloween.

HR: Well, now I'll tell you, we was talking about that last night. See back in those days, in the coal fields, uh... I told you people had big families. Well, they'd go to the company store and see I'll start with Christmas. Now Christmas is on the 25th of December. They go to the comp... the company stores they'd buy toys you know and uh... extra candy, and uh... nuts, and extra oranges, bananas, and grapes, for the holidays. Well, the parents would go down and uh... pick out what toys there was for the kids, each kid gotta.., most kids got one toy each, and they'd buy some grapes and bananas, and had a Christmas tree, and they'd put a sock on the Christmas tree, you know, for Santa Claus come, and a... thing like that. Then uh... most of the time it'd put it on uh... on uh... a lease. And pay for it you know in the next few uh... month, month or two you know. So much a month, that's Christmas. Alright, the next one big holiday will be the fourth of July. On fourth of July, people would put their order in for ice cream, southern made ice cream down here at Williamson at that time, made the ice cream. They'd ship it in wood barrels, metal containers eh... ice packs around it. They uh... the kegs would be made out of cypress wood.

HR: Then they uh... ship it up on the fourth of July on a train in Williamson. And uh... my mother always ordered uh... eight gallon of ice cream, five gallon of vanilla and three gallon of strawberry or cherry, and they come in those kegs, and the ice was packed around it, see, an' it had... we put salt on that ice, it'd keep it the whole day, then uh... the watermelons come in here from the south.

J: Where did you pick up the ice cream, company store?

HR: Company store. Or the railroad, uh... train number two. Be there at nine o'clock in the morning. But on the fourth of July it'd always be about an hour late, in North Matewan, and Lynn, Devon, Glen Alum, Cedar, and all them places. A steam engine.

J: It'd be late cause it's delivered all this ice cream.

HR: Yeah... and uh... so a we'd get the watermelon by the company store always get the watermelon by train and we'd uh... get two or three watermelons and uh...           ________ practically everybody raised their own chickens you know, we had frying chickens, we had our own chickens, we'd have ice cream, and mom would always make a cake, a lot of... two or three cakes had a big family, and we'd have ice cream, and a watermelon, and pop... have soft drinks, they'd order soft drinks, a couple of cases, and we got ice from the ice house. It shipped ice up had.. uh...           ________ ice come... in to uh... most companies had a ice house. Matewan have a ice house where the old station used to be. And uh... we had ice and uh... we had uh...           ________, make some lemonade, fried chicken, cakes, and we'd have uh... a little what they called a cookout. It wasn't a cookout, we'd cook on the stove at that time.

J: This is one family would do this, or would a bunch of you get together and do it?

HR: No. All fam... all the families, individual. Do that. Have ice cream, and that'd be the fourth of July holiday, what we did. And each summer we'd play ball or play croquet. We had a place to play croquet. And that'd be for everybody, play croquet or play ball.

J: So in the afternoon you'd get together and play ball.

HR: Yep, that was the fourth of July. And now, uh... Easter uh... we'd have uh... a little Easter, that's for Easter Sunday, uh... church, we'd have uh... Easter Sunday we'd have a egg hunt and uh... something like that at the church, at the schoolhouse, was called a church. Everybody uh... took a part Easter Sunday.

J: How about uh... Halloween? How'd you celebrate that?

HR: Well, you know we didn't, there wasn't too much going on Halloween uh... uh... at that time around the coal fields. They'd uh... some of the kids you know would dress up and go around and and paint peoples door handles or something like that you know. But there wasn't very much destruction at that time. Now I wasn't mean when I was a boy, I was mischievous.

J: What's the difference?

HR: (laughter)

J: You mean you didn't do stuff like throw cats in a bag and things like that?

HR: No, uh uh. No, I never did do that. Other kids did.

J: What about pets, did people keep pets then? ...house...dogs, cats.

HR: Yeah, yeah. Everybody had dogs, cats. They...in the company houses people...everybody had cats, and dogs, but they kept the dogs outside, in a door like that, I mean back in those days...wood doors down in the corner they cut about uh...five inches over that way and five inches down in the corner of the door and the cat wanted out he went out, the cat come in he come in that way...call 'em cat holes. And then some of didn't cut the door...they cut a hole in the side...uh over next to the door.

J: Uh-huh.

HR: Ya see, back in those days the old houses was built, they was boxed houses. Do you know what a box house is?

J: Boxed? No, what do you mean?

HR: A boxed house is uh... like that, they put a two by six or two by eight right here, they put a post there, and they put a board up about ten foot high on the corner... a board up about this high and they put a... another two by six or two by four round the top of it. Then they put the boards up side of it.

J: Okay. So you just tack up boards along.... the frame.

HR: Just like that right there. Boxed house.

J: Then you could just add on to it if they wanted to right?

HR: No, th... there wasn't no two by fours, no two by fours just a box. Just like you going uh... you going to... you take two two by fours put around here and you put boards on it, and you put another two by four up at the top here and nail your boards on it.

J: Yeah, okay.

HR: That's a boxed house. And it had a fireplace right in the middle, had a grate here, a grate 'here, a grate 'here, and a grate t'here. Wasn't... wasn't no brick chimney, it was metal. And every room had a fireplace in it. You understand me?

J: Uh uh, every room had a brick fireplace in it... that what you're saying?

HR: There's four rooms, one, two, three, four.

J: Oh, I see what you mean, okay.

HR: A fireplace here, a fireplace here, a fireplace here, a fireplace here.

J: Yeah.

HR: I was born and raised in a house like that, and my family got so big the company finally built a kitchen uh... fourteen by twenty-four out this way. A kitchen that you cook and eat in.

J: So you have a cookstove out there?

HR: Oh yeah.

J: So let me get this straight. This fireplace is in the center of the house and it feeds all four of the rooms.

HR: Hmmm hm.

J: Okay.

HR: You had a fireplace here and a fireplace here. Had four fireplaces.

J: The uh... so the company didn't mind when you cut a whole in the door for the cat. That didn't bother them.

HR: They didn't care a damn. It had a big porch, like that, that's a "L porch". That porch there. And a... had a door here, tha... tha... that went uh... went to the parlor, and this is a bedroom, this a parlor, and a this was the dining room, and then had... we had... had three bedrooms.

J: Did you have a uh... a pen or something that you kept hogs in or did the hogs run loose?

HR: No... n... run loose. Hell, the uh... this is a railroad track. We live right beside a railroad track and had houses over here and uh... had some five room houses over here, just like this'n here. And down the creek, the creek was right here and had a outside toilet over the creek and uh...

J: Did each house have one? A toilet...

HR: Yeah, but most 'em uh... see ours was over the creek, we lived next to the creek, the rest of the people lived over there at this side. They had outside toilets you... where they had dug a hole. You seen 'em ain't ya?

J: Oh yeah, sure.

HR: And a... so our's over the creek and we had uh... uh... up this way           ________ we had a garden over here and a garden over here. On this side of the railroad track. And the pigs down here and had a little cow barn down here for the cows that we had, two or three cows, and five or six pigs, and chickens all run out t'chere. We had a chicken lot for them. And a... but this toilet here we had uh... didn't... didn't have no toilet paper, you had Sears           ________ Catalogues. That's right.

J: So you could do some... you could do some reading, then it served another function at the same time.

HR: Right, right. Yessir. But ours was the best uh... ours didn't sink it went to the... went down the creek.

J: Uh hh. Was there anybody above you though that had... toilet over the creek....?

HR: The fire plant was up here and they had an outside toilet there at the plant went down the creek, the power plant was uh... next to the creek too. Made the power, made the uh... well, not power made the air you know to run the cutting machines with. Run by air. Had seven big steam boilers to make steam for the power... for the air compressors. I shoulda took pictures of that years ago, but I didn't give it a thought.

J: Yeah.

HR: Back young you didn't care no way.

J: Yeah.

HR: Power. Now Gary(?) Holler, up Gary Holler, all up Pocahontas fields had made there own power. Twenty-five cycle. Stone, Kentucky over here, Fortune(?), they had their own power, twenty-five cycle. They never changed 'til way up in the forties... to the a... uh... Appalachian Power Company. And uh... we didn't have none, we just uh... had oil lights.

J: Did a... did War Eagle have a water system?

HR: No. No, had a real well with a hand pump in it. Had to carry water. They ain't got no water system           ________ it's out, it's all finished, there ain't nothing there at all where I was born and raised. Like Glen Alum holler, Peter White, Isabend(?), it's right gone, and Mohawk's gone, Panther's gone, Little War Creek's gone, all those coal companies are gone.           ________ Holler it's about gone, U. S. Steel put out it, they was from Pittsburgh you know. I worked at Gary in 1928...

J: Oh, did... did you live in Gary?

HR: Yeah, I lived at...

J: I've heard a lot about Gary.

HR: I left Stone when I went to Stone, I mean left Hardy, I went to Gary first then went back to Stone in 1930, I mean... uh...           ________ I got mad at a boy at Hardy and left.

J: Got mad at him?

HR: Yeah.

J: What for?

HR: Didn't like 'em.

J: (laughter) That's a good reason.

HR: Went... went to Gary and went... went to Gary and run... run... we run the motor for $6 and something a day.

J: Well, let's see were you living in Gary when you got married?

HR: No.

J: When did you say... I forget when you told me you got married.

HR: I got married February 3, '34.

J: Oh. Okay.

HR: I was running a motor at Humphill(?). Shaft uh... below Welch. That was the uh... the uh... oh a what coal company was it... oh it wasn't Pocahontas, it was a Pocahontas uh... outfit. I met 'em over at the shaft, and the shaft was seven hundred and twenty foot deep. And I left there on uh... February the first, cashed up, I give him two weeks notice that I was going to leave, and I cashed up. I got $9.63.

J: For that two weeks?

HR: Yeah, left after paying my board. And she... I said to Clarabelle           ________, there wasn't but two miners stayed there then. Me and one of the fire bosses. And uh... got married on Feb... it was on the first day of February I left, got married on the 3rd. And I borrowed five bucks off my brother on Saturday when I went around and got the license, and I paid the preacher, figured train fare was sixty-three cents to Williamson and back. A dollar and sixty-six cents, and train fare to           ________ for sixty-three cents, uh... and I paid the preacher two dollars, it was on a Saturday night, snow on the ground about eight inches deep and uh... next morning I told my wife I said, "Well, I'm going to... come on in girl... I'm going up, I done quit my job now, so I went to War Eagle on Mon... on Sunday night, Sunday evening, anyway I get the cart before the horse. Anyway, Sunday I told her I was going up to War Eagle where my mother and father lived, about three miles from one           ________ tip up to War Eagle. Now I said I'll tell you what I'm going to do, I'm going to divide the money with you. She said okay. I had eighty cents left, I give her that fift... I gave her fifty cents and I kept thirty. And I got me a job at War Eagle in nineteen... up there on Monday morning, I went to work, and she come up on Thursday. She spent a dime of her money coming up on the train. I got them pay slips up at the house and the next time I'm going to bring down and show 'em to you.

J: I'd like to see them.

HR: And from the first of February, first day of February up until thirty-nine, and I bought the uh... furniture at Persinger Supply on the first day of April in 34, I've got all that too, in the lease I bought.

J: Yeah, yeah, I'd love... need to see that.

HR: I bought a three... I bought me furniture three room house, coal stove, and a radio, a refrigerator, all that stuff for $547.

J: Now, did you... did you get that on credit or did you have to....

HR: No, on credit.

J: Okay, you got it on credit.

HR: Yeah, I paid $15 every two weeks 'til I paid for it.

J: Now, you bought a radio then evidently...

HR: I bought... I bought the radio uh... about a month later.

J: So you had electricity by that time?

HR: Oh... well, I had drop lights, oh yeah.

J: That's right you told me you had drop lights.

HR: Paid $6 a month rent for a three room house. Doctor, a dollar and a quarter. Uh...           ________ company doctor.

J: So that was uh... you... you paid $1.25 every month.

HR: Every half.

J: Every two weeks? For the doctor?

HR: It was naw... it was a dollar and a half month for a single man, now I believe a dollar and a half a month for married people.

J: So then when he came to treat you, you were sick or something, did you have to pay for medicine also. That was covered in the a... payroll deduction.

HR: Wasn't many people sick back those days. You know why?

J: Un uh.

HR: I'll tell you why they'd kept their stomach cleaned off, and a doctor come in... he'd have a cold or somethin', he'd give you some calamar(?).

J: Some what?

HR: Calamar (?) A little... a little pill 'bout... almost big as your thumbnail. And to make your bowels move, you'd take a dose of castor oil after it. Clean your stomach up, if people uh... kept theirself cleaned up, like a doctor'd come in he'll give you some damn medicine, take it or else. They used to give us little boys, little kids, wh... hoarse you know, (sore throat) I mean doctor did, and we'd see a doctor and we'd jump 'em. We'd want some of that baby calamar little pink pills, taste like candy. Yeah, he give us damn handful of that damn stuff.

J: So you'd eat it like candy?

HR: Yeah, hell, we thought it was good. We liked it. I'll tell you what I'm going to come down here, another appointment and I'll... I'll bring you that stuff down with me.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection