Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Thomas Francis Interview

Becky Bailey: This is Becky Bailey for the Matewan Development Center. I'm in Phelps, Kentucky with Uncle Tom Francis. Okay. Uncle Tom, you were telling me about your uncle, the Baldwin-Felts agent. Will you tell me the story about cuttin' coal and then what you were just saying? Would you tell that story?

Thomas Francis: Then...uh...yap, my story?

B: Yes, sir.

TF: I know that real well.

B: Okay.

TF: (laughing) But I will, uh...promise you this or tell you this I don't know, it might be the places where I'll break down now.

B: Okay.

TF: You know uh...it's been over a year...I..the good Lord took my companion away from me. I won't get her back. But I can go there.

B: Un-hun. That's right.

TF: That's a blessing.

B: Yes, it is. Okay. If you don't mind, I'll start...I'll ask you a question. What's your whole name and where were you born?

TF: Well, if I got it...got the thing right. I was born in West Virginia, I'm a West Virginiaian, but we...our family was over...brought up in Kentucky. I's just down in Delorme just across the river is where we...we were mostly raised and uh...uh...

B: What year were you born?

TF: Nineteen one. July 13, nineteen one.

B: And what were your parents names?

TF: Uh...my dad's name was David Julius. And my mother was uh...Rebecca Christian.

B: How many brothers and sisters did you have?

TF: They was seven of us.

B: Were you the oldest or the youngest or, where did you come in?

TF: I was the second. I had a sister older than me. She's born in nine...1898 and I was born in nineteen one. And, there only about four years difference in the rest of them. Right up to seven.

B: Un-hun. Okay. Do you know when your parents were married?

TF: Where?

B: When or...or where? Un-hun.

TF: Uh...no I'm not...not sure about it. Uh...but it's, pretty close around in this area. I...I...I think my uh... dad's people come from down in Virginia maybe. But uh...my mother she's raised, part...part in West Virginia and part in Kentucky. Just...nothin' in between but the river. (laughing) And it's uh...what...I tell you what, you take uh...these sticks or where some people might call (the) sticks but, this is our home when we love, we love it, the place. Everybody does. I don't know. We. Uh...it's uh...well, it's home. But...

B: Now, did you grow up on a farm or or how did you all live when...?

TF: Well, they called it farms, those...I...you know, we don't have any farms in this section of the country. We have hillside. Raise you a little bit if you can. That's what we had. Now when...when I was a kid growin' up, uh...I didn't like it, five years, to start out about five years old. Me and my mother was raised stuff over'n the hillside. We didn't...couldn't plow it. Uh...we just, dig it in with a hoe and we raised stuff and I tell you what I did, I shelled a whole barrel full of dried beans and uh...one...one winter. And uh...but uh...I worked with that as far as I could and then when I got up about...about...when I started school, I went to goin' to school then I uh...my first school teacher was uh...York Hatfield from over on Blackberry and he was uh...I don't know, I just took up with him and I wanted to be a school teacher, then uh...he said, if you're goin' to be anything, he said try to be a lawyer or somethin' like that. Said the school teachers job is pretty....soon over. And then you don't have anything. Well, I...I got to thinkin' about that and I talked about it all along. Well, I got up uh...about thirteen years old. I was a workin' on the fourth grade and fifth grade taken both in one year...school year. Well, I finished up my fourth and halfway through the fifth and then I went to the mines. Thirteen years old and stayed with that fifty years. I had uh...one time, like I was tellin' you before about that uh...I...I had the chance to buy stock in the Eastman Kodak Company where they bought this uh...uh...(unintelligible) stock was gonna develop uh...films for um...the movies. And I knew it would be good worth. Their stock hand was only three percent and two weeks later, uh...tell you how...how it went up. It went up to 187. Well, I already had my stock in it...if I could got out of it and I only had seven hundred dollars but seven hundred dollars meant a lot of money to uh....accumulate that fast, you know. And uh...I could have made it. I was tryin' to save a little bit. I tried to save 'til I was oh...eighteen, twenty years old, I guess. But, see, that never make it. Well, I had to quit school and help my dad raise our family. Oh...it was when...time went on, at one time there, he...he quit his job and uh...I worked uh...nine shifts a week. Had to to take care of the family. Well, when he got ready to start, it was just like that on up until uh...it, that is the (unintelligible) in the beginning of the family bring them up to a certain point and then nothing important happened until uh...I uh...he said," Let's go to Freeburn and get us a job there." I was workin' over Grapevine mine in West Virginia. I said," Will you work?" "Oh yeah." We tried it. And uh...I'll tell you what, we did a good job of it. He...we...we got along pretty good. I got tryin' to save me some money and I was gonna save that and uh...go to school. Some of them said," You'd be a pretty lookin' thing uh...old man runnin' around with the boys." And I didn't know there was any difference. I said," I'm...I'm want to go to learn. I don't want to go to play. And uh...we worked uh...we uh...uh...I don't know how many years we...we did over there. Well, it went on through 'til I got old enough uh...to decided to get a family and start a family of my own. I was twenty-four when I married. But I tell you what you'd like to know I..I guess, some of my well...how...how I found her. She was goin' well, it was Mathew-Keith Junior Academy. That school right there. Uh...and she was staying at the preacher's. He, he was uh...he...he was runnin' the school. The big...the big boys. And uh...at...at this present time, I lived at uh...Freeburn, you know. That's just before we moved up here uh...but anyway, the uh...school would uh...put on a personal appearance programs, you know, and they'd go around different places and put on a show and it's pretty nice and naturally, it...this is the night that they was going to Freeburn, down to the Ray Christian Building. It was uh...this building was pretty well, pretty good size building and uh...had a lot of big things happening in it. And uh...on their way down. I was comin' up the road. Uh...we'd get out in our cars and ride around and uh...And we had two mile road that we built ourself. We paid for it. The people at the mine build two miles of it. That's what started the show up the creek here. And uh...we started on that. Well, anyway, we was ridin' up and down the road there and I seen this caravan a comin' down through there, you know, a whole bunch of cars and I didn't know what it was. And uh...some of the boys said," Why that's that uh...bunch from school up there. They gonna be a show tonight." Yeah. Well, they got up goin' by, you know. We set on that side of the road to let them by. It wudn't too good a road anyway and it part of Freeburn camp, you know, from Sycamore bottom there. And uh...it uh...it went by and I...I hollered at em as they go by and some of them I knew you know. Some of them I didn't. Well, this car came along and had one of the prettiest girls I ever seen in my life. I hollered at her there and said, "Hello there young gal." I said, "You're awful cute." Oh, boy. One of them teachers slapped her in the face and made her turn around the other way but them boys said, "Oh...boy, she was a good lookin' girl." Yeah. Yeah. I said, "Boys, I tell you. I'm gonna marry that girl."And uh...they...they just laughed at me. Well, I got to workin' it out and oh, we...I got to gettin' notes from her and I'd send her a note which still, slip 'em in different ways. Now, there's one girl down there at Freeburn. She went to school here and she come home on the weekends, you know, uh...oh...her uh...mother was dead but uh...her dad worked down there and...and uh...she'd always go home and spend time with him on the weekends. So uh...they went ahead and uh...uh...One of them spells hit me.(Francis was upset pause in interview) It's uh...but, anyway, she uh...she got to carrying notes and, what she'd do, she'd take uh...her notes and put them in them bottom of her shoes...When she'd uh...start to Freeburn...And uh...go a safe distance before she took them out and sometimes, she was kindly heavy built and naturally, warm weather, she'd sweat, I...I uh...she'd sit on them or walk on then or what have you. (laughing) But uh...quick as she'd get out...in where it was safe to get 'em...get 'em out, well, she'd get em out and then uh...take care of them and I...give them to me. And uh...well, uh...so many people would help uh...we...we couldn't mail anything to each other. We had to sneak it in and uh...one time uh...Mister Erickson, he said...he send me uh...uh...no, he wrote me about uh...tryin' to see the girls. He wouldn't allow that. And uh...I got a chance, I told him that I'd just uh...I didn't mean to do any damage or anything I said, "I'm gonna marry that girl, you...you...they's nothin' you can do about it." I said, "I done said I would and I will," and I...I..I was workin' on it pretty fast. Well, we went ahead and brought that uh...uh...they'd have took (unintelligible) if they can. That's been a long time ago. That's been sixty, about sixty-five years. And when you go to thinkin' about somethin' like at, that's um...but, to me, I'll tell you later on. I...I...what it means to me. I, but anyway, he uh...I...I found me a car. I...I told him, I said," Now, I can pass that road anytime I want to". " Yeah, but your not talkin' to any...wudn't none of the girls." I said, "Do you want them?" He said, "No, no." I said, "I...well I'm just a human being like...like they are" and I said, "Uh...what's the difference in Freeburn boys and Majestic boys?" I said "Majestic boys they..they...they can uh...date the girl occasionally" and I said, "We're not fit to walk that road". He said, "Well, maybe some will show in that". And uh...I told him, I said, "Mr. Erickson they's a lot you're gonna have to learn about me" I said "I...I figured that I'm just about as good as the next fellow and the next fellow is not any better than I am and I'm not any better than he is." I said uh..."We was promised when we was put on earth that we'd be equal and that's the way I figure people to be." And I said "I got just a good a right to speak to one of them girls if I want to. Ask anybody yourself. And uh...if you don't want nobody to speak to 'em. Okay. We won't do it." Well, I said," Along somebody else does, just I will." Well, he went ahead pretty good and he was goin pretty nice and...Dewey Charles' wife, she'd play the paino in church and I sing in the choir that I, come up and know...at that time, we done bought, my dad bought a place up here and we built a house and we lived up here then, when...when I got married but anyway, uh...we had uh...uh...we had this choir...choir practice over there, you know, and we's uh...Juanita said," Uh...here, Tommy, here's you a book". "I got...here's one". " I just...no, that one there...some of the pages is tore...tore out of it. You take this one here". Well, while once she had me a note in that book but I didn't have sense enough to know it. She was sneakin' me one. She's one of the teachers at school. (laughing) So, I..anyway, it just worked like 'at all along. And uh...what uh...it comes a time for the school to let out. She let me know when. I went to my boss and I wanted off an I asked nice and uh...I said," Listen, I'm goin'...I'm goin' to take that girl home. Or walk over that...that floor with her. I'm gonna have to meet her way up the creek, though, above uh...and slip off and go up there an hour or two ahead of time". We got up there and we had one of the...oh, boy, we had one of the best times ever was. Well, it...it...she had a sister and uh...uh... I...one of these Majestic boys went with him. I knew him and, well, we...we all knew each other uh...uh...uh...Mr. Erickson, he just thought he knew the boys, you know, and reckon that all Majestic boys was good boys but uh...Freeburn boys were all bad and uh...uh...we got uh...now, that...that...that was kind of courtship that we had uh...sneakin' notes to each other...Through our friends.

B: While were...

TF: And uh...when uh...when I took her home that time...I...in meantime, I help my dad raise his family. Her family was in the same shape. Whole...whole bunch of kids and just her and her mother, well, she hadn't uh...uh...she'd married again but he was no help whatever and uh...I want...I wanted them girls to have a little bit...a little life, anyhow. A poor man's life and uh...get a little joy. Enjoyment out of uh...her um...all she'd went through. Well, shortly, I...now, we took a notion to get married. I have this one funny thing, you'd laugh your head off if you'd seen how it all happened. You see, she come over here to spend uh...just a week later. This was on a Saturday and then uh...the following Saturday, she came over to get the rest of her clothes. And, uh...that was the thing, she was gonna stay all night with Nancy Charles. Oh, well, I knew what's goin' on. And I come in. We had supper and everything and ready for ramblin' and her and Nancy came up and uh...that's first time she ever uh...was at my house. Or...that's the very first time we was ever close to amount to anything. Uh...without somebody watchin', you know. Scopin' and uh...we had it pretty...pretty tough but this here was...it just turned everything loose. We started off...we was goin' just ridin' around, you know. I had a '24 model Buick, Touring car and we started down the road over there across the creek and Aunt Councy Charles, that's the name of Nancy's mother and...and uh one of her grandsons and...and uh...uh...Dick Maynard, anyway, we just loaded up the car and we got, had Blanche...Blanche Filmore was in it. That was Blanche Wolford then. That was before she was married. And uh...we started off down the road but uh...we stopped over there on the other side of the creek and uh...hollered at Ann Compton and told her to."Come on, let's go". She said, "Where you goin'?" I said, "We're gonna get married". Just jokin', you know, while," Yes, I want to go". And she just come down there and walked, parted the rocks and the rest of the way, she waded the creek and the creeks almost dry, you know. Almost (?) Well, she, go over there and got in. And goin' on just braggin' about it and it we...it's still a joke. We got out on the right close where the preacher lives and uh...I done told her, I had arrangements for him to...he said he'd be ready anytime I was so uh...other than that, I just stopped and uh...Nancy and Blanche, they jumped out of the car and went after the preacher and I...we...then we was tryin' to call it off, all of us, and uh..well uh...Sarah and me both were uh...tellin' 'em we was just jokin'. "No. This has went far enough. I'm goin' after the preacher." Well, went over there and got the preacher and here he come and uh...we...we could...uh get our license down at Old Man Andy Ferrell's, down at the mouth of Pounding Mill and uh...we went down there. We left the rest of them here at the mouth of Peter Creek and we went down there where uh...uh...Uncle Andy had a...a real old time fiddle, a violin, you know and the preacher, he played pretty good. Old...Old Andy, he played pretty good, too. But, we got to playin' there and singin' and everything, and the first thing we know, it was eleven o'clock. And uh...preacher said,"If you're gonna get married today, we better get goin'. It's eleven o'clock or almost."(laughing) Time we got up...back up the...walk back up to mouth of creek in water, and uh...well, we come up there and got hitched up right there on the creek bank. On a sand bar and uh...next day, I believe it was, Mr. Erickson, he come to my...come over to see me. "Did you know we can have that marriage annulled?" I said, "But you know we can get married again if you do." I said, "Preacher, take me as a human bein' and...and uh...just, a young man, wantin', he wants a...a wife," and I said, "they's no...no harm in that," and I said, "I picked that girl out and that's the one I wanted and that's the one I got and that's the one I'm gonna keep and there's nothing you can do about it." He said, "Will you promise me one thing? If you all can't get along, well you let me take her and keep her?" And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I'll do it Preacher. If we can't get along." I said, "but we're gonna get along." Uh...I slapped her one time, In...and uh...all our married life. Now, everything wasn't peaches and cream. Sometimes, it...we might have a little...little cross words or something like that but, the time I slapped her, she called me a bad name and...I was uh...the mines wasn't workin' much and I was tryin' to make an extra dollars work...fixin' fellows pumps, three o'clock in the mornin' on Saturday night. He said, "My kids can't go to Sunday school and church if I don't get my pump fixed". We fixed it. I come home. She said I was out drinkin'. I told her no, I hadn't drank well one or two yep but thats all, and uh...she uh...called me this name and I slapped her. I went through the house to the bedroom and down across the bed and I cried like a little baby. I said, she said, "What's a matter hun?" (honey) " What are you doin' a cryin'?" I said, "I slapped you." She said, "No, you never." I said, "Yes I did." I said, "What's your face a doin' red?" I said, "I promised myself when I took you as my wife, I'd never lay a hand on you," and I said," you called me a bad name and I said I was only tryin' make something so the kids could eat." Well, anyway, that took care of that but, I just wanted to tell you out of them sixty-four, almost sixty-four years, like from April to uh...it was only like uh...I...yeah, from April 'til, anyway, there's only about two or three months or sixty-four years that we weren't together and that's a long time.

And uh...uh...in the time of it, her mother got cancer and she couldn't make it...I said," Bring 'em home, honey". She said, "You've had enough. Said, you couldn't go to school for...help raise your family". I said," That's all right. I'll helpin' raise yours too". And uh...we...we took her mother and kept her 'til she died. And, you know what? She was old fashioned like myself, big old country person and uh...a likeable old lady and she uh...wanted to be buried...said...she...she said," I can't wait much longer". And said, "When I go, I want to be buried in a homemade casket and I want you to help build it". I said, "You wouldn't ask me to do that would you?" "Yeah. Said, that's what I want." I said, "All right. I'll do it." Chester Murphy and me, we built a casket for her and we...and uh...done away with her. Well, we took her...had her...

TF: Uh...they had a little boy. He went to school and I told him, he was goin' to college and uh...uh...I don't know if he was Lexington...Lexington or Louisville. Maybe...no, he go to Louisville College and he worked down there and uh...uh...I told him I said, "Now, when you get a chance to come home, you come home". I said, "This is your home and don't go off and stay, if you get some time off. Which...but he got a...a...a part time job and goin' to school, too, and he uh...he didn't get to come home pretty often but he...he come um...when he...maybe he..he'd get to spend a couple of weeks out of a year or somethin'. That's about all and uh...uh...he...he was good. Well, they was two...two other boys and I kept one of them part of the time and one of them a little bit of the time, what time...he was mean. He...he stole my raincoat and sold it and I wanted to take it and wear it to work one morning. It was a rainin', and didn't have no raincoat. I asked him, I said, uh..what he'd done with it. "I traded it for liquor." He said, "What do you want with a raincoat? It's not rainin'." I said, "It has rained since you took my"...and uh...well, so much for that uh...I did what I could for them but my family, I did what I could for her family."

And uh...I kept uh...Edna's children for her when she had to go to the hospital one time. She was in the hospital for uh...oh, I don't know, a month or two, I kept her children, well, we did rather. Kept her children, right along with mine, and uh...just like it's a family. Well, now, them kids, they think as much of me today as they ever did think of their daddy and they loved their daddy. They think there's nobody like me. Well, I think they's nobody like those kids. And uh...I don't know, I just, it...it was uh...it was in me from the time I was a little kid to help everybody I could. And uh...I loved children. I'll uh...they's a little boy down here he..he was adopted. He...he's...he's the cutest little feller, and he likes uh...Monroe Dotson, well, he sits with him when they...when they'll let him and he'll set with him durin' church up until they get ready for the kids to go up to their regular place, and he's sittin' there with Monroe. Monroe's right in front of me. Well, preachers havin' the prayer and he looked over and he said," Monroe, that's Uncle Tom right there. That's Uncle Tom. He lives over next to me". (laughing) He's only about three years old when he talks real plain, you know, and it's the cutest thing you ever watched...On a Sunday. He (?). Sit with him and tell him that he looked back and shook hands with me and "How are ya Uncle Tom." (laughing) And I...I just...I don't know. They's...they's girls. Well, there are a few boys, nay...not too many boys. They won't be petted, but girls will and I've got a girl, she used to...well, she's about that big, she's my little girl. And now she's about twelve or fourteen, she's...she's still my little girl. Well, I'm her Uncle Tom. (laughing) I've got one that lives up the creek up here uh...she married and got about, I don't know, I know she's got one daughter. She's big as you are but she's my little girl. And all that stuff and it just something funny. Uh...that's just the way we did it. But, anyway, I been a long enough on that particular question. I like to talk about it. That was...that was my life. I...that was part of me. And uh...uh...I just.

B: Well, could I ask you some questions then?

TF: I just...I just hump up and...and uh...don't let it be known. I...I...I..I tell you what. I've had a good life. Now, everything hasn't been peaches and cream, now. We had it hard at times. But I...one of my kids tell me one time, uh...it really done me good. I went to Williamson one mornin' to buy me a tape recorder, but I wouldn't buy it. I...I's talkin' about buyin' it. Jean, my second daughter, she...I was tellin' her about. " Well, why didn't you buy it daddy?" I said," Honey, uh...my family might need some money and if I've got any, they'll get it. And I could..I could do without that but I can't do without my family. And she said," I'll tell you what, you...you buy that tape recorder and said uh...you don't have to worry about uh...your family". Said uh...uh...said," You know what, said, times have been pretty rough. Things like that but we was never hungry in our life. Us kids, growin' up. Unless it...we was down in the bottom playin' in the sand, uh...too lazy to come to the house and eat. Said we...we...we...now you buy that tape recorder".(laughing) And I did. And uh...I uh...made a few tapes. And uh...I don't know.

B: What do you remember about World War I? Do you remember...what do you remember?

TF: Uh...I'll tell you what, It...I had uh...I got old enough before the thing was about over, well pretty close to draftin'...bein' in the draft. Uh...but uh...I..I remember uh...a quite a bit. Now, Doc Wolford...His...he had a brother, went to work early like I did. He got killed in the mines and uh...Doc, and...and Dodge was his name and uh...I uh...I...this kindly stuck out in my mind and...and growin' up because uh...uh...Doc was a good friend of mine. He's oh...maybe a couple years older than me. Long time he's been dead though and uh...but anyway, I'd just, the way it happens.

B: Un-hun. When um...would you tell me the name of your uncle that was the Baldwin- Felts man?

TF: It was Walter McCoy. Now, he was better known uh...you could name...named old...old timers right now and if you didn't call him Bud, then you wouldn't know who you was talkin' about. But Bud, we called him Bud all the time.

B: Un-hun. Would you tell...would you tell me what happened when...?

TF: Well, you see, he was uh...Baldwin-Felts man and they uh...they was tryin' to keep peace in that strike. And uh...uh...they got uh...the Baldwin-Felts men found out that they was a goin' to attack that train when it came into Matewan. Someway. So they went down there to try to keep peace. And uh...when they tried to keep peace, the train didn't have...the only thing, he just sit there doin' all the firin' goin' on and the gun and the killin' there in town. And, that's where they uh...Mr. Testerman, he got killed, and..Sid. And my uncle got shot and, I don't know, two or three of them, I don't know many they was. We had no way of knowin'. You didn't know when these things was gonna happen. You didn't know where...what...what happen after it was over unless uh...you was part of it. And I had an uncle that was part of it...And that way, I got the low down on it, as much as I could. And uh...it...it was bad. It happened. It just one of those things. He's on one side and they was on the other...Well...

B: How had he gone to work? Why did he go to work for the Baldwin-Felts? How did he get that job?

TF: Uh...he always wanted to be a uh...one of them and it took him...he worked on it for years before he got...Before he got into it. And, but he got it when they...when they needed more men, how come him, he wouldn't have got it then, but they put more men on to try to keep peace during this um...um...miner's strike, you know, or...or...tryin' to organize...And that's where it all happened. And he got into it like that. He'd been...he'd been uh...in it 'bout...three or four years. And he uh...

B: What did he die of? He got wounded, right? And...

TF: Pardon?

B: He got wounded, right? Is that how he died? When did he die? After the shooting.

TF: I'll tell you what, I don't know. It was way back over, it was about nineteen, wait a minute, no, 1918. I was about 1918, something like that, nineteen...I'd say. Got...that's roughly now, I wouldn't...I wouldn't say it, it's so.

B: Un-hun. After the shooting, though, when did he die? He died, what, about two weeks after?

TF: Uh...yeah, he lived about two weeks after it. And uh...he always said that he wanted to be buried on uh...up Bill Dotson holler, down here. And uh...he wanted me to haul him up there in a wagon. Well, I promised him I would, you know...That was another time I got...had it pretty bad. I built a casket for my uh...Mother-in-law and uh...Uh...hauled my uncle to the graveyard.

B: Un-hun. Was he your mother's brother?

TF: Half-brother.

B: Half-brother.

TF: Um. See he's a McCoy and she was a Christian.

B: Okay. Did he tell you who started the shoootin'? Did he...did he know who started the shootin'?

TF: I don't know, but it...when...when one shot fired, lot of them was fired. They used to get on that mountain and shoot into Freeburn. I was away from Freeburn at the time. And they'd shoot over in there and...And, I...we never had. I don't know whether they had anything killed or not, but we never had any killed. I...we'd shoot back at each other and things like that. I never shot at nobody. But uh...uh...our, some of our people, you know, we had about forty deputy sheriff's. Uh...the company hired them. They stayed there. We kept...we kept these (?) And uh...got along the best we could. I know, one...one time, Colt Carver, he was in one bunch and I was in the other bunch.

Of course, we was good friends. He come up Freeburn, like he always done. And the law got a hold of him there and was treatin' him worse than anything and I said," Hey, wait a minute...wait a minute. Don't you do that, I said, that man is a good a man as he is in the world". I said," I know him". And I got to talkin' to him and tellin' him everything and uh...I got him to let him alone. And he said," I just wanted to go up to the store and try to get heared...heared they had something up there he's goin' to get". And uh...I told the sheriff. I said," I'll go with him. If you'll let him go".

"Why, if you say he's alright, go right along with him or let him go home by hisself if you say he's alright". I said," He's alright. I'll say it. But I'll go with him anyways". And uh...we...we got that over with. But, that's just one of those things.

B: Would you tell me the story again so I'll have it on tape about when you and your uncle worked straight through those shifts uh...and...and you...the um...about the coal cutter...?

TF: Oh.

B: Would you tell me that story again?

TF: Yeah. Uh...uh...uh...uh...uh...it won't be altogether the same. I might cut it short or somethin' like that but your don't need all of it, just need. So you got enough to know what you're talkin' about.

B: Right.

TF: Especially, well...uh...you see, we work in an old Grapevine mine and uh...this uh...uh...that...the machine broke down at the other mine. We work in the number three mine and the number one mine. The number two mine was worked out. We'll get that, will you. Number one...one and number three. Well, uh...that machine had broke the same uh...bull wheel on the cuttin' machine...And it wouldn't run. Uh...we couldn't use it or we used ours and ours had been cracked for three months. And they hadn't bought a new one so uh...uh...what we...what we's tryin' to do, we was tryin' to mine the coal uh...cut up everything and then load the coal out while we rested and we started workin' uh...that uh...uh...we started...we started on a regular night shift and then worked the next day and the next night and the next day and we worked two days and three nights but, in the meantime, now they...they... they'd go and have stuff cooked for us. They bring us stuff to eat and fix us a place to lay down where we could sleep two hours. They let us sleep two hours and uh...and uh...go back to work. Wouldn't let nobody uh...Bud wouldn't let nobody handle his uh...uh...machines. Said, we...they couldn't cut one place with it. And I know what it's take and he said," I'll take care of it". And uh...well, he wouldn't let nobody help him but me. (laughing) So we stayed with him. And uh...they got them fixed, then, it's alright for anybody to use machine that wanted to. They give us two days off with pay. Uh...uh...and let somebody do our work for us. (laughing). But, we had it pretty good and uh...I...that's...that's just the way we...we did all the time. We really took...Well, we thought a lot of each other now, I'll be honest with you. Yeah.

B: What do you um...remember about the flu epidemic of 1919? Do you remember that?

TF: Pardon?

B: Do you...what..do you remember the big flu epidemic that happened after World War I?

TF: Flu?

B: Un-hun. In 1919.

TF: Lord, yeah. Yeah. They...they...it was bad but uh...I'll tell you what, you didn't go, if you had it in your family, your family's the one that just about took care of itself. And of course, you know, we uh...uh...livin' in a...company house. We had uh...company doctor, you know, and everything, and we got...we got plenty of attention...And uh...we had several people pass on over the flu. But, it was just...I don't like to think about things like that, you know. But uh...but uh...

B: Alright.

TF: I never thought anybody would ever ask me anything about this. That's...

B: That's just, historians are startin' to get interested in it. That's why. Because so many people died.

TF: Well. Now, you know.

B: What did they treat ya'll with for it? Were you sick with it when it..?.

TF: Pardon?

B: Were you sick with it when it came through? Did you get sick when that happened?

TF: The flu?

B: Un-hun.

TF: Uh...yeah, I had it but I didn't...I didn't lose much at that time over it. Uh...but it...it happened out, our whole family got sick and everything and got well, before my mother took flu. She went through all that and waited on us and everything. And then she took it.

B: Hum. Um...Okay. What was your first job in the mines? You said you went to work at thirteen.

TF: I was trapper. I open...opened the doors for mules to go pull the cars out. Haul the coal with mules. I did that awhile, then I went to drivin' mules. I was kindly young for the job but...And I did that awhile and then I went to uh...uh...breakin' new mules along on top of haulin' coal at the same time...Well, they paid me more money for that and some feller got mad because I got more money than they did. Well, I got extra money for breakin' them mules. And they, why he's just a boy, how he gettin' much as we are...If a boy does a man's job, let him get man's pay. That's what the boss said. He told them that, you know, if a boy does a man's work, let him get man't pay. So, that...that's squared away. Oh, my goodness.

B: What do you um...remember about them trying to unionize in the early days, say around 1920 or so? What did your think of the union when you were first workin'?

TF: Well, I didn't belong, but uh...even uh...I felt that way. I'm in favor of them. We got along. We..we was people. Uh...we didn't have any trouble that amount to anything. If...if we...if...if we got fired upon, it was from a fellow from other section. People that knew us didn't do it. Uh...we didn't do it to them. I wouldn't do it no ways because it...they was for the right thing. But I was employed. And I had to hold mine, take care of my work the best way I could. So uh...uh...it...I...I was never...never satisfied but one time. After uh....the uh...now, we, when uh...when they's gettin' ready to organize, we come...we come up here, Julian Charles walked all the way from Freeburn...Up here and gang...ganged up and we all joined the union. Well, we went to work and he said, "Young man, I understand you a union man". "Yeah". "Well," he said, "it'll all be that one day." Oh uh...it worked out pretty good. We uh...went on for few years, I was uh...uh...on uh...a committee. Uh... miner's committee, union committee on uh...uh...the mines uh... for short while and then I was put on uh...uh...another committee that uh...that lasted for awhile and uh...uh...we...we, let's see here, I...I don't know whether I can keep it straight or not, but anyway, what I'm tryin' to get to...what I'm...I'm..in 1935, I started out as assistant foreman. I couldn't belong to the union then. They...they put me out. But, that's just a short time after that, they uh...decided that the cuttin' bosses or assistant foremans could be uh...well, could belong to union. Oh boy. We all jumped for it. We all joined up and the chief electrician in the mines, he...he was...just a general mine forman and a superintendent is all they was that didn't belong. The chief electrician, he was...he...he was our president of our local. We had a local and everything. And uh...so uh...we got to belong to union. Oh, we was goin' on there pretty good, you know, it lasted almost three years. Uh...and uh...they traded us off. To get the next contract goin' through and then uh...take us off...out of the union. I...I didn't like it pretty good but it's still, it's...that's the way they wanted it and that's the way it was and...When we had a chance to get in with them, we went in. And when they had a chance to get rid of us, they got rid of us again and they never took us in anymore. It was bad. (clears throat)

B: Did you ever hear of a group called the um..IWW?

TF: The what?

B: The IWW? Some people called them the wobblies. Industrial Workers of the World? It was back...back around the time of World War I. They were...they wanted one big union, was their slogan. Did you ever hear of that?

TF: No. Hunt'un. I never had nothin' to do with it.

B: Okay. What um...if you don't mind me asking, what has been your politics through the years? Do you call yourself a Democrat or Republican or and Independent?

TF: Well, I'll tell you what now, they's been time that I go to the polls and I vote for the one or two men. And, the other party didn't get anything. I'd vote for my one or two that I was for and if I was for the other man, I wouldn't vote against him.

B: Um...Okay.

TF: So I...but uh...I promised a feller one time, Doc Dotson, he's...he's a doctor down in Freeburn. And he's gonna make me vote Republican ticket. And I told him no. I...I'm Democrat. He said, "They ain't no Democrats. They just turn coats". I didn't know they's any difference, well, he kept on and he got hot with me and he told me said, "Uh...uh...you...you can change your mind". I said, "No, I said as long as I live, I will never vote a Republican vote because, I making you that promise". He's been dead many years, but I've never voted Republican vote but I've...I've voted for my men that I was for uh...on ticket. And uh... I wouldn't vote against them fellows, so. That...that...that fellow, if I felt for them. They have a just a little right but I...I make Doc Dotson that promise that I wouldn't do that. I'm funny, I...I...If I...If I tell you anything, it's iron clad. It...It'll stick.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection