Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Louise Darwin Interview

BECKY BAILEY: This is Becky Bailey for the Matewan Development Center, Friday, July 27, 1990. I'm in the Matewan National Bank board room and I'm going to interview Louise Darwin. um...for the record Ms. Darwin, would you state your full name?

LOUISE DARWIN: Uh...Louise Darwin.

B: Okay. And when were you born?

LD: In '23.

B: Where were you born?

LD: Red Jacket uh...this West Virginia. Uh...West Virginia.

B: Okay. What were your parents names?

LD: Mine was uh...mother's name Madeline and my daddy named Mack Gilliam.

B: Okay. Were they originally form this area?

LD: Yeah.

B: Okay.

LD: West Virginia.

B: Okay. Where was your mother born? Do you know?

LD: Uh...she was born in Virginia.

B: You wouldn't know what year would you?

LD: hun-un. That's before my time.

B: Okay. And um...was your dad?

LD: I forget what, where he was borned at, I, he might have been born in Virginia. I don't know.

B: Okay. Were you an only child?

LD: No. It was six of us in all. All of them, they died when they was babies from what my mother told me. I'm the only one living.

B: Okay. Were they born before you or...

LD: Yeah.

B: Okay.

LD: I had one under me. THe rest was born before and I had one brother under me but he died.

B: Do you remember him?

LD: Yeah. He died in '84.

B: Did your dad work as a coal miner?

LD: As a coal miner yeah. THat's all around here is coal mines.

B: Okay. Where did you all live up at Red Jacket?

LD: You know what's called Italy camp? In there.

B: Okay. Was that all black families?

LD: No. We had some white people live in the same camp at that time.

B: I was just trying to figure out if it was segregated. Say, did the whites...

LD: No. We had some family they was uh...'tally (Italian) people I think they called them, but they stayed in the same camp. They stayed, they had uh...let's see if I can remember. It's been so long now. I remember one family. They was uh...what was they name? I can't think of they name now but we was mixed in that camp. This coal field, see that was Red Jacket Coal Company so you just mixed up in the coal camp, but it was. I can't think of them people now. It's been a long time.

B: Did you know how long your parents went to school? Did they go to school?

LD: I don't know. That's before my time. I can't...I don't know whether they went to school or not.

B: You know could they read or write?

LD: I know my mother could. I don't know whether my daddy could or not.

B: How long did your dad work in the mines?

LD: Lord, I couldn't tell you that because I don't know.

B: Okay.

LD: I..I just don't know.

B: When did, when did your parents die?

LD: Well, uh...let's see now. My mother died in '74 and he died back in the '30's but I don't, I done forgot what year but it was in the '30's.

B: WAs it in an accident or...

LD: Let's see, I can't remember what it was. No, I don't think it was no accident. I don't know whether he got sick or something, I don't know what actually happened. All I know, he died back in the '30's.

B: Okay. Okay. Um...let's see, did your mother ever tell you about the...the flu epidemic of 1919? WHat happened...

LD: Well, I heared my grandmas's talk about it...

B: Okay.

LD: Back in them days cause she had some kids to die in it back in them, at that time. My granny.

B: Did she live with you all? Did your grandmother...

LD: Um...my grandma? No. Uh...after my daddy died, we lived with my grandparents. That's the way it was.

B: Okay. Had they moved to this area?

LD: Who, my grandma? Oh, yeah. They lived here.

B: DId your grandfather work in the mines?

LD: Un-hun. Yeah. He's a coal miner.

B: Did they ever talk about how um...the...the black miners and..and the white miner's worked? Did they work, the black miners...

LD: They all worked in the same mines.

B: Okay. I've um...read in some books that in some places though, the black miners weren't treated as good.

LD: Well, up here, they all work together now, whether they be treated good or not, they all worked in the same mines. Course, that was all up in this part and all worked in the same mines.

B: Okay. When did you go to school?

LD: When? Let's see, I done forgot what year. I know I graduated in 1943. And I don't know when I started in grade school. I can't think that far back but I know when I finished school.

B: Do you remember your...your first school house? Do you remember...

LD: Yes. IT's been up there at Red Jacket where the uh...telephone, you know where the telephone building? You pass by there, well, that's where the school was at at that time.

B: Was that an all black school?

LD: Un-hun.

B: Do you remember any of your teachers from that school?

LD: Yeah. Uh...let's see. Who did I go to first? Well, I can tell you the teachers that taught at the school. WAs Minnie Cunningham. Mr. Sawyer. Um...let's see, who else was up there. Oh, gosh. I can't think of the rest of them. Been too long to remember.

B: How big a school was it? How many rooms were there?

LD: WEll, at that time, wudn't but three.

B: Okay.

LD: Three rooms.

B: And then where did you go? Did you go to Liberty?

LD: LIberty.

B: Okay. Do you remember any of your teachers from over there?

LD: yeah. Uh...I know Jim Martin, Drew Cullum. He was the principal at the time I went and uh....C. T. Harrison, no, C. T. was the principal and Mr. Cullum was one of the teachers. Um...let's see who else. Verona Clark, and uh...see, who was the other teacher. H. T. Joyce and Dan Palmer uh...I can't think of the rest of them. I can't think of the rest of them.

B: When you went to high school, did they teach your um...about people that liked history like Booker T. WAshington?

LD: Hun-un.

B: They didn't teach any black history?

LD: Not as I can remember. I don't remember them teachin' it.

B; Let's see. How did you all travel over there from Red Jacket?

LD: BUs. School bus.

B: What did it look like? Do you remember?

LD: School bus? They were yellow school buses.

B: How long did it take you to get over there?

LD: Well, it depends on what time the bus driver pick you up. And it depends on the weather. It didn't take too long. See, he had to make stops between, he'd go up, he'd pick up at Vulcan and then he'd come down here and pick up and on down the road he had to pick up kids all along the way before he went to Williamson.

B; So it was probably a pretty long bus ride?

LD: Yeah, probably, for some of the kids was longer.

B: What did you all do?

LD: What's that?

B: On...on the bus. While you were riding?

LD: Nothin'.

B: Just sit and talk.

LD: Talk and wait 'til you get to school.

B: How long was your school day? How long did you go to school?

LD: WE, they took up at nine and I think they let out at three. I believe they did. I believe they let out at three. Either three or four. I can't remember exactly what time, cause they has to let in order for him to get the kids home before dark.

B: What did you all do for lunch?

LD: Lunch? Oh, they had cafeteria there now, if you wanted to, you could carry it, uh...you could eat there in the cafeteria.

B: Okay. When you were growing up, where did your mother do her shoppin'? Did she, was there the company store?

LD: That's what it was.

B: Did she work after your father died?

LD: Oh, yeah. SHe worked.

B: Did she work before your father died?

LD: Let's see, I don't think so cause, at that time, he, minin' goin' on and after that, she worked.

B: What did she do?

LD: Well, she mostly, I don't know what she actually done. Tell you the truth, I don't know. SHe worked for uh...I don't know. Can't think of what it w as now. All I know, she worked uh...

B: Did she ever remarry?

LD: Hun-un.

B: Okay. Were you all church goers when you were little?

LD: Oh, yeah. You had to go whether you want to or not.

B: Why's that?

LD: Well, your parents made you go.

B; What church did you go to?

LD: It's up at Red Jacket.

B: Is this the Red Jacket Community Church or the...

LD: No, Red Jacket, do you know where that, where they wash cars up the road, that church across from the road there. It wudn't uh...well, back then, it wudn't built like it is today. THis is diff...they've built the church since then. But that's where the place was at.

B: What did the church look like back then?

LD: Well, it was uh...one of them old timey churches, I guess. And they just built one cause, it was real old and so they built another one.

B; was it a Baptist church?

LD: Un-hun. Yeah. It's a Baptist church.

B: Okay. Um...do you remember any of the ministers?

LD: Well, let's see. I was...two, that was Rev. Studemeyer and Washington and I can't remember before him. I can't remember the preacher now. Them's the only two I can remember.

B: Did your mother and your grandmother like going to church?

LD: Oh, yeah. They went.

B: How often did they go would you say? Did they go during the week?

LD; They go to prayer meetings in the week...week day. They have prayer meetin', they go to that.

B: Un-hun. Did your grandfather go to church?

LD; Yeah. He went.

B: Did you all have to dress up on Sunday to go church?

LD: Not what you call dressin' today. You wore what you had back in them days.

B: What do you remember about the Great Depression? You would have been a little girl.

LD: Oh, well, I can't remember too much about that. I know uh...I can't, know too much about it because I was small then but uh...I remember wudn't too much work back in them days.

B: What, do you remember about your first trip to Matewan.

LD: Matewan? I was borned around here.

B: Okay. How old were you though, be...like, you know, some people can say, I remember back 'til I was about five or six. You know, how old do you remember bein' the first time you remember comin' to town or something like that?

LD: Town? I can't, we didn't hardly come down town. Hardly ever come to town.

B: WHy was that?

LD: Huh?

B: WHy was that?

LD: Well, your parents just didn't let you go and that was it. And you didn't have no money to go with to buy nothing so, you didn't go.

B: Did you ever come down here to go to the movies when you were older?

LD: Well, not much. I never did care to much for it. For movies.

B: Okay. Do you remember John or...or Mary Brown?

LD: OH, yeah.

B: WHat do you remember about them?

LD: Oh, well, not too much. I remember way back when he run the pressin' shop and everything. LIved here. He had a pressin' shop that he run back in them days.

B: Did your neighbors from up at Red Jacket? Did they ever come down and go to his...his clubs like the Curtis Club or the Dew Drop Inn?

LD: Uh...yeah, well, Dew Drop Inn, that's before my time. I guess they did.

B: Do you remember the Curtis Club?

LD: Yeah. It was right down there. It's tore down now.

B: What do you remember bout it?

LD: Well, nothing too much. People would go, they didn't have nowhere else to go and so they go down there.

B: After your father died, did your mother ever go out, say, at night, did she ever go to...

LD: Oh, no. She wouldn't go out at tonight. Wudn't nowhere to go unless you had the money to go with you. Back then, you didn't have to much to go on. Cause, what you worked for, you had to take care of your bills and things, and didn't have no where, didn't have no money to go on back then.

B: Okay. Okay. I know, my mother grew up at the end of the Depression and she said they ate a lot of beans and a lot of potatoes. What...

LD: Well, that's like, that's about, you raised them, the, your potatoes and if you had the money, you could buy some beans. If you didn't have the money, you couldn't get em. But, most things, they planted gardens and raised the stuff.

B: Who raised the garden in...in your family?

LD: We all, we all had to get out there and help.

B: So, if I understood you correctly before, there was only you and your mother and your brother and your grandparents. Is that right? Okay. WHat do you remember about workin' in the garden?

LD: Nothing. WE just have to get out there and hoe corn. Plant, we'd plant potatoes, beans, corn, we had to do all that corn. To weed it and all that stuff.

B: Who did the disciplinin' in your family when you got in trouble when you were a little girl? Did you get spanked?

LD: OH, yeah. You...you didn't do to much cause your grandparents would take care of that.

B: What do you remember about that?

LD: Huh?

B: Who spanked you?

LD: Well, your grandmother mostly.

B: When you were uh...growin' up, where you taught to um...(tape cuts off) (Bailey cut off tape to explain question – polentially[sic]-sensitive.) She asked, "were uou [sic] taught to act differently towards whites?"

LD: WE never had nothing like that 'til the later years come here so we didn't know nothing like that when we was growin' up cause we played together and sit at the table and eat and all, but the later years to come, it's all together different. I don't know why, but everything changes.

B: When did that change?

LD: I don't know. I don't know when they start. We didn't have no problems when we was comin' up. Not like that.

B: Okay. When did you get married?

LD: Uh...what year was that? Well, I don't know whether it was, it's in the '60's. See, all my papers and things from the flood washed my house off. EVerything washed off in it. But it's back in the '60's.

B: Did you have children?

LD: Hun-un. Ain't got none.

B: Okay. What did you um...do after you graduated from high school?

LD: I worked.

B: What did you do?

LD: I worked the hospital.

B: Was this the Matewan or...

LD: Matewan Clinic. What they call Matewan Clinic back then.

B: Who was the doctor there at that time?

LD: Well, we had Dr. Hodge and Dr. Bolder, Dr. Roy. Um...Let's see. That's about all I can remember now.

B: What did you do there?

LD: I worked back in the kitchen. Helped to prepare the meals.

B: How big a building was it?

LD: It's that red brick down there so I don't how big it, what, uh...how big it is.

B; Did you all have many patients? I mean,...

LD: Oh, yeah.

B: How many meals would you cook? How many people did you...

LD: You serve three a day.

B: How many people do you think you...you...

LD: I don't know sometime, it would be full and sometime it wouldn't and it just depends on it.

B: Okay. What do you remember about um...desegregation? do you remember say, when, well, you didn't go to the theater much and that's usually the easiest thing to point to but what do you remember, say, about hearin' about the civil rights movement?

LD: Well, I don't know, I never, well, to tell you the truth, I never thought too much about it. Because, see down here, it's not like in the big cities and thing, you don't uh...have that much around here, see. The only thing, well, we couldn't go to school. We had to go to Liberty and uh...Matewan school was up here. Then we had a grade school at Red Jacket and we couldn't go to the grade school. That was about it around here. All I know, about it.

B; Okay. When you were a, when you graduated from high school and were a grown woman, did you travel much to Williamson?

LD: Oh, yeah. That's the only place you had to go, if you didn't stop here in Matewan, you just gone to Williamson and then back home. CAuse there's nowhere else to go.

B: Did you shop over there or...

LD: Oh, yeah. You go down there and buy what you want and come back.

B: Do you remember any of the shops that you used to shop at over there?

LD: Well, let's see, um...Murphy's was in there and then you had Cox Department Store and Penny's and then you had uh...store called Brown's and then you had one called Swatches uh...let's see, we had another uh...Hobb's. Five and ten cent store and then we had a shoe shop called Cinderella Boot shop at that time and let's see, what else, that's about all I can think of now.

B: Did you ever go down to Third avenue?

LD: Huh? Third? Oh, I passed by there. See, when you go down, up Vinsont, if you come down Vinson street, you have to go down Vinson where you go through there and go out, you know, Vinson street. You have to go through there. If you didn't go down second avenue where you go down Third to get on Vinson.

B: I just heard that's where a lot of the clubs and...

LD: WEll, it was back in them days. THey had uh...barber shop and clubs and things down there. Back then.

B: Did you go? Did you ever go to the clubs?

LD: No, I...I didn't fool with the clubs and things. I never did care for it for one thing. So I just never did go.

B: Do you like music?

LD: Not too often. I never, I can't sit still long enough to hear it.

B: What kind of things do you like to do when you're not working?

LD: Workin? I might watch television ever now and then. Most time I get in my car and drive up. uh...but...

B: Do you remember the first time you watched television?

LD: Hun-un. Well, see, back then, it was a long time before we ever got the line, see. (tape cuts off)

B: When you graduated from high school, did you move out on your own?

LD: Not right then.

B: When did you move out on your own?

LD: Oh, I don't know, it's been, it's been a long time. I can't even remember when it was.

B: Okay. When you lived at home, did you have to uh...give your mom uh...any money from what you made from workin'?

LD: Hun-un. I didn't have to but I did.

B: Okay. Do you remember the 1937 flood?

LD: I was in all of them.

B: Really? WHat do you remember about them?

LD: Well, you just have to get and get your house out and everything and all the water don't mess, all the water mess up, you have to throw it away and you try to save what you can and clean it out and go back in it.

B: What floods stand out in your mind?

LD: Well, the '77 flood was the worst in all in the floods we had. Besides the '84 flood, it was bad, but the '77 was the worst.

B; Okay. Were you still workin' at the uh...clinic when the '57 flood hit?

LD: Um-um. I wudn't workin' there then.

B; Okay. Where were you workin' then?

LD: I wudn't workin' at all then.

B: WHy was that?

LD: I just wasn't workin'.

B; Okay. what do you remember about um...World War II. Did...did you have any girlfriends that went away to work at any of the factories or anything?

LD: No, I had a girl I went to school with, she joined the WACS, I believer the WACS. Ain't that from the Army? WAVS, WACS, what ever it is. She went and joined that. During World War II.

B: Did she, did you ever hear form her while she was doin' that?

LD: No, I never did hear from her. See, she went out of school and joined it.

B: Un-hun. What do you remember about World War II?

LD: Not too much, just a lot of people had to go from here.

B: Did any of the um...the black young men go?

LD: Oh, yeah. I had uh...some cousins went.

B: What were their names? Do you remember?

LD: Phil uh...Kermit and Ben and uh...Jim Marshall. James, yeah, Jim. And then I had one cousin name Charles.

B: Do you remember his or Kermit's or Ben's last name?

LD: Kermit was a Marshall. Ben is a Moore and Charles is a Marshall.

B: okay. We've heard that...the, the Moore family was here pretty early.

LD: Who?

B: That the Moore family, your...your cousins, I suppose that, they had come to this area pretty early. What did their father do for a living?

LD: WEll, that's before my time. I wouldn't know.

B: Okay.

LD: That's way before my time.

B: Okay. What about the Marshall family? WHere did...

LD: Uh...my grand, they come out of Virginia back then.

B: Okay. Did your grandmother ever, it may have been your grandmother's grandmother, did...did you ever hear any stories from any of the old people about back during slavery over in Virginia?

LD: My grandpa used to sit down and tell us when we was little back then.

B; What did he talk bout? what did he tell you?

LD: Oh, I can't remember that. Cause I wouldn't, I, well, back then when you're little, you don't listen. You just sit and hear what they got to say and it's gone. See.

B: Un-hun. Did um...when I was little, my grandmother was always treatin' us with salves and...and tea and stuff like that. DId your grandmother ever doctor on you all with...What do you remember?

LD: Couldn't afford no doctors so she'd mix up whatever it was and give us but I wouldn't know what it would be.

B: Okay. Okay. My grandmother's um...also really superstitious. Was your grandmother superstitious about things? Do you remember any of the things that she used to say?

LD: No, she just always tell us on the New Year's not to let no lady in the house first, come across the door. If it's a man, it would be alright, but not let a woman in. But why, I don't know. But that's the way she always would tell us.

B: Do you remember any of the other things that she used to say?

LD: No, I couldn't remember that far back. I do remember that.

B: When you got married, what was your husbands name?

LD: Buster.

B: Darwin? What did he do for a livin'?

LD: Well, he worked for Chamber's Funeral Home and then eh worked, he used to drive a school bus then he worked for the, used to have a feed store down there. The Reams would run it, sell feed for, he worked there and then, he worked in the mines part time, not all the time. He worked some in the mines and that's it, about it.

B; Okay. Where was he from?

LD: Arkansas.

B: Okay. (tape cuts off) (Bailey realizes Darwin's husband was mentioned in another interview and wants to double check this off tape)

LD: What is that down uh...where you take baths at Hot Spring, where they, go down there and take them baths and everything, and I think he (Broggs "Thurman Chambers") was the cause him comin' out here. They would go down there and take baths. A bunch from, go down there and take them baths at Hot Springs. I don't know what kind of bath it is. Some kind of baths they'd go down and take.

B: I think Sallie said uh...your husband was a, he did give massages or something.

LD: Yeah. Yeah, back down in there. Where they took them baths.

B: Was that, he was from, was he from Arkansas?

LD: Yeah.

B: Had he grown up there?

LD: yeah. THat's where he from.

B: Did you ever go back down there with him? Did he ever go back?

LD: Hun-un. I never been down that part of the country.

B: Okay. How did you all meet?

LD: We met here.

B: When did you all decide to get married? I mean, how...how did you decide to get married?

LD: Didn't. WE just went on and got, I don't know. It's been so long since that happened. I don't know what happened when uh...I can't think that far back.

B: Okay. About how old was he when...when you all got married?

LD: Oh, I don't know. I really forgot how old I was.

B; When did he pass away?

LD: '81.

B: Do you remember Aunt Carrie?

LD: Oh, yeah.

B: What do you remember about her?

LD: Oh, she used to live right out here. She had a house right back there. Back there. Yeah. I know her well.

B: What do you remember about her?

LD: About her? Oh, she just, like any of the other persons.

B: I hear she cooked a lot for people.

LD: She did. She cooked. And then she used to do iron, you know, for people until she got so, you know, where she couldn't do it, she had to quit.

B: I've had people tell us she was also, if she wasn't a bootlegger, she sold whiskey. Did you know about that?

LD: yeah.

B: Back when you were um...ridin' through to go to school, was the main street out here, was that a paved street when you were young?

LD: Yeah. That was. When I started goin' to school.

B: Okay.

LD: It might not have been back years back, when I started to school, well, it was paved then.

B: Did people park like they do now, on the street?

LD: Yeah.

B: Okay.

LD: Un-hun.

B: Do you remember um...well, he went by a different name and I think his real name actually was Johnny Fullen said people knew him as Dad Brown.

LD: Old man John Brown?

B: Well, no, he worked for him. I think his real name was Joseph Capples.

LD: Oh, yeah. Yeah. He worked for Mr. Brown back then.

B: What did you know him as cause...

LD: I...I can't...I can't remember that far back. That's been a long time, long time. YOu have to ask somebody older than I am.

B: When you were growin' up, did you like um...candy or anything like that when you were little?

LD: WEll, we didn't get much candy, I...granny didn't give us much candy back then. SHe didn't believe in it.

B: How about on the...

LD: I don't know why, but she never did give us much candy.

B: How about on the fourth of July. Did you all get ice cream and stuff like that?

LD; Well, see, back then, they made the ice cream. Never did buy it. They'd make, made it.

B: Okay. Who made it in your family?

LD: Well, my grandmother made, made it. They had one of them old fashion freeze, when you turn, freezes. You may not see them now but that's the way they made it back then.

B: What kind of flavors did she make?

LD: Mostly she just made vanilla flavor.

B: Okay. have you ever um...traveled outside this area? Have you ever visited anybody away from here?

LD: Oh, yeah.

B: Where's some of the places you've been to.

LD: I just, well, a aunt died in New York, I had to go there. Buffalo, New York and then, when my brother died, I had to go to Norfolk, Virginia. But I just never did like to travel. The only reason I went then, I just had to go. But otherwise and that, I don't do much travelin' outside.

B; Un-hun. Okay. When you um...used to go to Williamson, did you take the train or did you...

LD: That's the only way. You'd take the train or the bus. WEll, I wudn't drivin' then, but see, the buses was plentiful and the train run.'

B: Did everybody um...mix together on the bus or the train?

LD: Yeah.

B: There wasn't a segregated section.

LD: No. Not as, let's see, I can't remember about the train back in them, you just got on and uh...if you could get a seat you get it, if you couldn't you stand up back then and the bus was the same way.

B: Did you ever go to any of the baseball games?

LD; Hun-un.

B: Okay. Um...does anybody um...since your husband worked for the Chambers family, did any of the member of the Chambers family stand out in your mind?

LD: (outside voice - How long are you all gonna be?) I'm ready to go whenever she get ready. (Outside voice - uh...she needs to) tape cuts off.

B: Uh...well, we took a break for lunch and for you to take a trip to Williamson so, I thought we'd go back and talk some more about your husband. You say your husband worked here at the bank?

LD: Oh, he worked 'til he got sick. Pauline can tell you how long he worked here cause she was workin' here at the same time.

B: Okay. What did he do here at the bank.

LD: Janitor. Done janitor work.

B: Okay. What did he do down at the um...hardware store?

LD: Oh, that was right across here at the time where that building there, he delivered furniture. Mr. Cooper had a Hardware.(store) Sold furniture and different things like that and tools and come under all hardware stuff but he had a furniture store in there too.

B: Un-hun. Okay. Okay. Let's see, what do you remember about Mr. Cooper?

LD: He used to be the mayor of this town. Yeah.

B; What was he like?

LD: Well, he seemed to be okay. nice guy. THey lived right down in that uh...red brick there.

B: Where did you and your husband live when you all?

LD: Well, we lived back here. The house had washed away in the flood. We had a six room house back there. And he drove the school bus too. I don't know whether I told you that or not.

B: That must have been a hard job what with these roads. Were the roads bad when he drove a bus?

LD: Well, the road was bad. Very bad. When it got too bad in the winter, he just didn't run. You know.

B: How did the kids get to school or did they have school?

LD: Wel, they, the ones in Williamson could go but the ones that lived out here couldn't 'cause the bus didn't run when the roads was real, real bad. the bus just didn't run.

B: Now did...did your husband drive the bus that took the black kids to Liberty?

LD: That's where he went to, yeah. That's where the, that's the only school you could go to at that time.

B: Uh...I talked to a man that was a little older than you but he says he remember uh...uh...a black man bringin' a carnival in here or a circus from New Orleans. Do you remember uh...

LD: It might been before my time.

B: Okay.

LD: I said before my time that was a little bit, you know...I was very small...may not even, yeah, I hadn't born then... I was just too small...

B: to remember.

LD: Yeah.

B: Okay, what did do for play when you were a little girl?

LD: Well we just played out in the yard...we had dolls and played around in the yard...See we wudn't allowed to go out of the yard.

B: Why was that?

LD: We was, I don't know parents just kept you inside the yard, for you to play. They didn't believe in letting you out... we stayed inside the yard and played.

B: Well there's something I wanted to ask you about uh...when I talked to uh...Johnny Fullen and James Curry, do you know him?

LD: Uh-huh, yeah.

B: I asked them about the Klu Klux Klan and they said they really didn't give the black people much trouble in this area, do you know....?

LD: No, I don't think they did, back then...

B: Did you ever hear about them?

LD: Yeah, my grandpa told me all about...see they was back here in them days...they didn't seem to bother the black people. What I understand my grandpa say...

B: Uh-huh...do you remember anything else he said about it?

LD: Uh?

B: Do you remember anything else he would, said about it?

LD: Uh-hun, just sometime he would get down and go to talkin' and he would just tell us, about back them days...

B: Uh-huh, okay, okay, um...what do you remember about Dan Chambers, do you remember Dan Chambers?

LD: Well, yeah he lived right across the road there, he was president of the bank, when my husband was working he... then I worked up until he got sick, 'til Mrs. Chambers went to Florida...Then I worked under Danny....That was his son Danny Chamber...then he left, then Mr. Frank Allara took over.. as president, then after Mr. Frank stepped down, Danny Deaton's daddy...Danny Sr. Deaton...he took over president, then after he left Mr. Moore took over, I worked under five presidents.

B: What do you remember about Mr. Allara, he seemed liked he was quite a character?

LD: yeah, he was, he was okay, nice fellow...to work under... he just had to step down because he was sick...

B: Uh-huh....people had said that he was real out going...

LD: he was...

B: and energetic...okay, uh...I know when uh...back in the '30's and '40's there was a curfew here in town at night for the kids had to be off the streets...do you remember that?

LD: Well, see uh...we at that time we I was up North Matewan... that's above here, I wudn't living in Matewan then....

B: Uh-huh...Okay, how when you lived up there how often would you say you came to Matewan?

LD: Not often. 'Cause your grandparents didn't let you go,.... wudn't nothing to go to unless, if you didn't have the money to go to the show house, you had no where else to go...and alot of time we just didn't have the money to go with...cause see back then, they wudn't paying like this is today...you work all day and you didn't get paid like it is today...back in them days, it wasn't this...money flowing then...

B: uh-huh...do you remember how much you got paid when you worked as a cook over at the clinic?

LD: Uh...clinic, I don't know, I done forgotten that, what I got paid, it's been so long see Bea. WIllis she was the bookkeeper over their head, she wrote checks...I don't whether she talked to her or not...she lived up in Buskirk apartment..That's Venchie Morrell's, you've talk to Venchie Morrell's sister-in-law... he married Bea's (his) sister-in-law...I just forgot what I got paid it's been since a long time, I never, I just forgot.

B: What do you remember about uh... Venchie 'cause it seemed like he got into a bunch of trouble, when he was a little boy...?

LD: Well, he older than I am, I can't remember back that far.

B: Did uh...you talk about your house that was down here was that down near where...

LD: No, right where that trailer sit, his mother had a house right down below me...Mrs. Marorrell, Venchie's mother...

B: What do you remember about her?

LD: Oh, she's a nice lady, nice, she'd walk up sometime, sit out in the yard and talk...

B: Uh-huh...and you got washed away in the '77 flood?

LD: yeah, that whole all of that went up, when the bridge went up, so they just took all them houses, clinic and the church back there...it all went up....

B: Did you have any insurance or did you lose?

LD: Yeah, I had flood with the federal flood, at that time when they came around...I didn't ever think I'd need it but, finally when that '77 flood hit, just washed everything off...

B: Uh-huh...where did you live after the flood, I mean where did you stay?

LD: Well, that night we went over across the railroad, we stayed up Mrs. Brown's course the flood got up almost run in the bottom door up there...then we just had to wait for the water to go down, then uh...the government sent trailer's in, cause you couldn't get in or you couldn't get out, and then uh...after the water went down, everybody went back to see what they could find, see if they had anything left...didn't have nothing left.

B: So did it completely wash your house away?

LD: The whole all them houses went up...Uh...Venchie's mother's house, mine, Louise Morrell and uh...Morphine's and the Looney's had a house down there..and the church and we had a clinic that sit right there...all that, when the two sections of the bridge, the whole thing went up.

B: How long was it before you went back to work, I mean how did you eat?

LD: Well they send uh...the national guard, they sent them in to cook...they had a sit-up on the other side of the railroad...on that road over there, they sent the national guard's in and cooks and everything....and that's the way we ate. 'Cause you couldn't cook, because uh...alot of people the water got in the place they couldn't turn the power on...and they just couldn't do nothing, 'til they dried it out, some of them had to have the power people to come, to check the power so, the house wouldn't catch uh...fire...the ones that had houses left.

B: Uh...where were you living when the '84 flood hit?

LD: Well right there, I had a trailer...right were that one is at now...and it come in that Monday...my brother died that Tuesday, and the water kept a spreading, well we had to go across the railroad, 'cause we didn't know how the water is going... and so after Friday, I didn't know he had died, because my cousin in Charleston called and she couldn't get nobody and so my other cousin called the police, and axed where I was at, and she told him what had happen, he called the E.O.C. (Economic Opportunity Commission) Center and the lady, I was out in the car and she came out and got me, told me had died, so I told her call back down there, and tell him I couldn't get there before Friday, because the water had got me again...so I left Friday and we buried him I think Friday...Saturday or Sunday one...and then I had to come back and couldn't go, I couldn't stay in it because the health people come around and it the put a red x on you, well you can't live in it no more...so they put a red x on mine so I moved out a lot of stuff and I had some boys to clean it up and I give stuff away, 'cause I couldn't use it, didn't have no water to wash with, no washing machine or nothing...and this lady come, she said "can I have this" I said, "take it I don't have no where to put it no way," well she, they moved the trailer and the rest of the stuff I just, they had...(tape cuts off)...

LD: to put it on the river bank back there, burning it up... all the stuff you couldn't use, they had you take it back there, and they burned it up. So once the Health people put a red x on it, that's it...

B: Did they ever tell you why, they were putting red x's on things?

LD: Well, they would go in and check it out, and then they put a red x on, that mean you can't live it...Not only mine, it's several places, they put them...

B: Uh-huh...(tape cuts off)

B: Would you tell me that again, you said the, it swung your trailer around?

LD: Yeah, the water the pressure, the water the pressure I guess just swung it around...see what hurt me, the river gets out it's banks and come around in front of the city hall and just comes straight down and then meets...that's the way it does...and the pressure I guess just swung it around...

B: Uh...so but you, you moved back out in that area?

LD: I livin', live right there now, there my trailer, you can see right out there...

B: Uh-huh...do you, are you still afraid of another flood?

LD: Well, if it do, I'll run from it, see I own the property and the, so I just stay where I can, I own that.

B: Who did you buy that property from?

LD: We didn't Mr. Cooper gave it to us at his death...The Mayor Cooper, after his death we got it. So wudn't no use of me a moving after I owned it...because if the water going to get you, it's going to get you.

B: Did you ever think about moving out this area?

LD: Uh-hun, well if I was younger I may have, but I wouldn't now...

B: Uh-huh...did you ever think about it when you was young? How come?

LD: Because see at the time, I was working and it didn't matter...

B: Uh-huh...To talk a little bit about politics, have you always voted during elections and stuff like that, do you vote?

LD: Yeah, I do now, but years back I didn't vote none and then uh...when they come around to register, I finally registered to vote, but I use to not vote...

B: uh-huh...why was that?

LD: I just never did care to go to the poll...but they had people come around and register and, people that didn't register...so I finally registered.

B: You wouldn't know if that was back in the uh...in the '60's when they had the fair election campaign?

LD: I don't remember when it was, because I was working at the clinic at that time...that they came around...but I just forgot what year it was...

B: Uh-huh...'cause I know, I think, I hope I'm not voting this wrong I think it was uh...L.C. Howard and maybe James Curry was involved in getting people registered, there was some...black citizens you know that went around and help get other...

LD: The ones that registered me up was uh....one of them was uh...Robert Buskirk and I can't think of that other man... that come down on this end...I can't think who that other one was, it's been a quite a while ago.

B: What do you remember about him, this was Robert Buskirk Jr. right?

LD: Uh-huh...this...yeah...

B: What do you remember about him?

LD: Well, not to much, they use to own that Buskirk Building down there, Mrs. Buskirk and them...his mother owned that building.

B: What do you remember about her, I hear she was kind of a forceful lady, that she would...

LD: Oh, yeah..

B: take charge kind of person?

LD: she was a nice lady, I used, she used to call me, I used to do a little work for her, when they, when she havin' company to come in...I use to go up and do some work for her....well she was, I don't see no gripes about here, she was a really nice lady.

B: I had somebody tell that uh...she was where Mrs. Carrie got here crystal and stuff, Mrs. Carrie had a whole bunch if crystal and glass...?

LD: Oh, she did.

B: Is that who she got it from?

LD: Probably did, she really had some nice stuff, really nice...

B: Okay, do you remember Thurman Chambers?

LD: Yeah.

B: What do you remember about him?

LD: That, that was, he use to be the deputy sheriff, the high sheriff...of Mingo County...

B: Uh-huh...what do you remember about him?

LD: Well, not too much, (laughs.

B: Do you remember his daughter Sallie?

LD: Uh-hun...

B: What do you remember about her?

LD: Uh...oh, I don't know uh...she I just see her ever now and then...but yeah, I remember her. I think that's the one they called "Broggs" Chambers Therman...He use to be the high sheriff. The sheriff of Mingo County...

B: Uh-huh...they had some uh...interesting Chief of Chief's of Police here in Matewan, does any of them stand out in, in your memory?

LD: Well, they all about the same...no different.

B: Do you remember Ernest Ward?

LD: Oh yeah, he live right across from me, the house is tore down now, after the flood, they tore that house down...Yeah, I know Ernest well.

B: What was he like?

LD: Well, just ordinary person, he worked in the mines...he worked in the coal mines...his wife lived down in Hatfield Bottom now...

B: Uh-huh...What about Ernest Hatfield?

LD: Well that's his daughter, worked downstairs, you've met her...

B: Uh-huh...I think so.

LD: He use to be the police chief here too.

B: They say this down used to get pretty wild, on Friday and Saturday nights?

LD: Well, that's when uh...everybody the mines was working, and everybody was working with alot of people here then...alot of people.

B: Has the bank changed much in your memory?

LD: Yeah in a way 'cause uh...it use to be over across the road, on the corner that red brick...that use to be the bank, and the post office was in the back, then they finally decided to build one on this side.

B: So it's gotten alot bigger?

LD: Yeah, a whole lot bigger.

B: When you were born, did your mother every tell you who helped deliver?

LD: Well, yeah uh...when he was born, she could go to the hospital then...and when I was born uh...a lady named Eliza Burrell brought me in...cut my navel cord, that was up at Red Jacket, she was a mid-wife what you call them back in them days.

B: Was she related to Mrs. Carrie?

LD: Uh-hun, this was another Burrell...

B: Did she tried...

LD: Eliza Burrell...

B: Uh-huh... Eliza Burrell?

LD: Uh-hun...that was her name.

B: Did she charge your mother money?

LD: No, back in them days, you didn't have nothing to pay with, they was friends...and she, they lived with me. But when my brother was born when he was born why she could go to the hospital then...

B: Uh-hun...What was your brother's name?

LD: John.

B: Would you spell your maiden name for me?

LD: Gilliam? G.I.L.L.I.A.M.

B: Okay, let's see. Do you remember Andrew Crockett?

LD: yeah.

B: What do you remember about him?

LD: Well, he lived up uh...North Matewan before he married... see he came in from Virginia too, his mother...him and all...that's where he lived for I don't know how long before he got married.

B: Uh-huh...um...With so many black people coming from Virginia...where they from similar areas or from the same area?

LD: Different, different...

B: Different areas...

LD: See my, grandparents come from Appomatox Virginia, now I don't know where that's at down in there.

B: Okay, so you never been back over there?

LD: I've never been to Appomatox...I wouldn't even know where it was close to.

B: Okay. Was your husband, did he have much education?

LD: No, I never, didn't know whether he had any or not...

B: Uh-huh...

LD: and I never did know. 'Cause he never mentioned nothing about it and I never thought, asked nothing like that.

B: Okay, Well thank you for talking to me...

LD: Uh-huh...

Matewan Oral History Project Collection